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Crockford

paulstraw.svbtle.com

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Re: Crockford

#111

Post by hasenj »

easychris wrote: post #53
Udo wrote: post #8

One of my consulting projects includes doing programming for a relatively big millenials-dominated site. Users on that site know exactly what cards to play in what order to get people on staff and/or affiliates fired - it's Crybullying all the way. It doesn't even matter if the claims made are true or not, just the proclamation of being hurt or oppressed is sufficient. The site owners ultimately making these decision…

Agree. I ran a dating site for 7 years and had to deal with such inquiries on a daily basis ("Buhuu, that guy/girl sad mean things to me, close his/her account"). Most often it turned out the complaining person was the problem. Worst cases were third parties who requested such actions on behalf of the "victim". They were loud, asked other members to complain too and even showed up in our offices to demand account clo…

Their real lives are most definitely a mess ..

Re: Crockford

#112

Post by Khaine »

istjohn wrote: post #29

It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…

You really need to grow up. Our community was founded on being different. It wasn't that long ago that nerd and geek were pejorative terms. Geeks didn't get the girls form a reason.

My entry to the tech industry was playing games. All of the work I have done online involved dealing with nicknames and aliases. Nobody cared if you were black, white, pink, gay, straight or female. All anyone ever cared about was that you contributed well.

Now everyone has to walk over eggshells to be 'inclusive'. I think its important that we enable all people who want to work in this industry to be able to and to support and mentor others. But this doesn't mean we have to lose ourselves in the process.

If someone finds a joke about floppy disks, or the terms promiscuous or slave/master so offensive that they can't be a member of the tech community. They really need to eat some concrete and harden up.

There are people who put down women and exclude others based upon certain characteristics within the tech community and frankly that is appalling and we should all be working to get rid of them. But incidents like this do nothing to help deal with those people and often make it harder.

Re: Crockford

#113

Post by DefaultUserHN »

tomohawk wrote: post #3

It seems pretty clear that this is more about a clique that is attacking Mr Crockford in order to obtain more power for themselves. They can now say - "Hey - you have to listen to us! We Matter! Look at what we forced the Nodevember people to do. We're a moral authority!". To go from complaining about a lack of diversity, to basically saying 'you screwed up and now need to prove your love to us by uninviting this JS…

And people wonder how all these psychopaths/sociopaths keep getting into positions of power.

Re: Crockford

#114

Post by istjohn »

dogma1138 wrote: post #51
istjohn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. It's great that societal norms of what is acceptable in speech are progressing to be considerate of more and more out-groups. But we need to be mindful that news of these new norms do not reach everyone simultaneously, and we should not tar and feather people for not independently coming upon the insight that a certain element of speech can be hurtful. While we should all seek to understand and empathize…

These aren't norms and they aren't new the subject has changed but this is exactly the level of thought policing that true liberals used to fight and even die for. This is no different than the puritans or any other group that wish to enforce their own opinions at the expense of everyone else.

Asking that white men respect others is not hurting "everyone else." White men are the small group here. Norms of tolerance and mutual respect only ask that white men welcome everyone else to the table.

Re: Crockford

#115

Post by istjohn »

tajen wrote: post #110
istjohn wrote: post #29

It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…

> There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men. Why this assumption? All the information about programming is on websites that are accessible to everyone independently on their gender and race. I've witnessed very inclusive initiatives by most people, white or not. If we mostly get white males, does it make our websites racist? Is StackOverflow, Eclipse, Subl…

You don't need to look far to find women who've had bad experiences in tech culture. Of course it's not all bad. It's natural for groups to value their common qualities and tend to devalue those of people outside their group. Techies aren't monsters. But we surely can still do better.

Re: Crockford

#116

Post by istjohn »

stephenr wrote: post #67
istjohn wrote: post #29

It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. There is no question that our community too often can feel hostile to those who aren't white hetero men, and that is a real problem. On the other hand, there is no questio…

> It disappoints me to see how many folks on Hacker News have responded to this incident by condemning the entire concept of standards of conduct and the idea that the developer community should take the goal of inclusivity and sensitivity seriously. Who. Who has responded that way? Have you read the article? There is: - no official message on exactly why he was shit-canned. - references in his previous talks to: - "…

> I'm all for women in tech, I'm all for equality and people not being attacked for who they are. I'm not for people using ridiculous mis-representation of a person to have that person removed from an event.

Then we don't disagree. I see too many people in this thread who seem to think the entire project of taking inclusivity seriously is either silly or actually offensive. Terms like Social Justice Warrior have been used to disparage inclusivity broadly instead of narrowly addressing ways we can do better.

Re: Crockford

#117

Post by gnarbarian »

jgalt212 wrote: post #38
tomohawk wrote: post #3

It seems pretty clear that this is more about a clique that is attacking Mr Crockford in order to obtain more power for themselves. They can now say - "Hey - you have to listen to us! We Matter! Look at what we forced the Nodevember people to do. We're a moral authority!". To go from complaining about a lack of diversity, to basically saying 'you screwed up and now need to prove your love to us by uninviting this JS…

Who are these bullies?

Social Justice warriors.
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