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Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

nytimes.com

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Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#21

Post by Practicality »

fallingfrog wrote: post #15

I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think there were a lot of jobs being done by women which are now being done by nobody, and among those are the jobs of maintaining social cohesion and networking and so forth, which are a lot easier to do if you and your friends are somewhere other than at work at th…

I generally agree and would say the root cause is that we are individually poorer and this is forcing both members of a partnership into the workforce to make up the difference.

If women worked and men all stayed home, did chores and social networking we would not be lonely again.

I don't think it has much to do with gender so much as "we have less free time." It just shows up as women working, but I don't think women working is the cause, merely a symptom.

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#22

Post by mrec »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #19
13of40 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> companionship is what they need I'm 40ish and married right now, but throughout my life I've alternated between being solitary and living with people. My take on it is that both are psychologically stressful in different ways. I've wondered once or twice whether it would be better to have some kind of drug or therapy that helps a person be content with being alone rather than assuming that companionship is going to…

Part of the problem is that our culture strongly encourages social contribution and development of identity via social mechanisms. We stigmatize non-contribution and individual identity using labels like crazy, weirdo, freak and degenerate. Isolating non-conformists wouldn't need medication and therapy if people respected them in the first place.

Yeah, that stigma seems to be a relatively recent phenomenon. Reading something like Dickens there's far more tolerance of eccentricity on many axes. (That might be just Dickens himself, of course, but I doubt it.)

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#23

Post by fallingfrog »

Practicality wrote: post #21
fallingfrog wrote: post #15

I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think there were a lot of jobs being done by women which are now being done by nobody, and among those are the jobs of maintaining social cohesion and networking and so forth, which are a lot easier to do if you and your friends are somewhere other than at work at th…

I generally agree and would say the root cause is that we are individually poorer and this is forcing both members of a partnership into the workforce to make up the difference. If women worked and men all stayed home, did chores and social networking we would not be lonely again. I don't think it has much to do with gender so much as "we have less free time." It just shows up as women working, but I don't think wome…

Ah, but what if the fact that we are individually poorer mostly derives from supply and demand - in other words, if labor is more abundant, then the price paid by an employer for labor goes down? In that case it is plausible that the entry of women into the workplace could be part of what's causing the drop in wages as well. And in that case it's a self reinforcing feedback loop, since if everyone else has two people working then you have to do that too, just to maintain stable wages.

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#24

Post by Terr_ »

Practicality wrote: post #8
hclivess wrote: post #2

the TV consensus has been breached. Now suffer the existential pain!

What is "the TV consensus?" Google does not turn up anything useful for this term.

Perhaps they meant the idealized dollhouse of mutual buddies seen in various shows and sitcoms?

It's hard to make weekly shows about lonely people with only one permanent cast member...

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#25

Post by fragola »

fallingfrog wrote: post #15

I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think there were a lot of jobs being done by women which are now being done by nobody, and among those are the jobs of maintaining social cohesion and networking and so forth, which are a lot easier to do if you and your friends are somewhere other than at work at th…

Except for the fact that Japan actually has a very low rate of workplace participation for women, I agree with your comment.

Feminists actually talk about this a lot, using the term "emotional labor"[0]

It is a bit like how the decline of religiosity in the US has led to a decline in social participation. It's clear to me, at least, that whatever your opinion on these institutions (religion, patriarchy) there needs to be a movement to fix the void in civil society created by their decline.

I think about when I visited the Middle East and how I would often see men on "friend dates", i.e. having a coffee together or relaxing in the park. They would often be sitting close, even holding hands. It made me think about the strange distance men in the US have from each other and how lonely it is.

[0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/women-gender-r...

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#26

Post by cLeEOGPw »

astazangasta wrote: post #13
mac01021 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young people can walk and drive longer distances, and so normally have less reason to remain lonely, I would guess. Do lonely young people continue to be lonely mainly because they don't know how to initiate social interaction? Or because they don't realize that companionship is what they need?

One thing I've been thinking about is how the terms of social relation have been changing rapidly, and we don't have tools or forms for managing them any more. In order to communicate, form bonds, etc., we need common terms, things we can agree on the meaning of, and those have eroded - our moral systems have decayed as people move away from religion, our communication styles change every few years, national boundari…

Religion may play part, but one of main reasons is economic independence. If a couple of decades ago people had to cooperate to just survive, at least where I live, now many are financially independent and can survive perfectly without outside assistance. This reduces the need for social interaction and even seeking partner.

Another big reason I'd say is vast availability of solitary entertainment through TV and Internet that further reduced need for interaction.

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#27

Post by SaasDeveloper1 »

I used to be lonely\empty before deciding to follow Christ. I tried and did just about anything and everything to fill this void and nothing lasted. Giving my life over to Him literally changed my life. I'm convinced that we are all created to be in a relationship with Him and until we are we will constantly search for other ways to fill that void.

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#28

Post by vijayr »

SaasDeveloper1 wrote: post #27

I used to be lonely\empty before deciding to follow Christ. I tried and did just about anything and everything to fill this void and nothing lasted. Giving my life over to Him literally changed my life. I'm convinced that we are all created to be in a relationship with Him and until we are we will constantly search for other ways to fill that void.

That might work for some people. But there are some of us who prefer to socialize with someone who we can see, hear, talk to, laugh/play with and touch

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#29

Post by atombath »

1) I grew up a solitary person in what felt like the middle of nowhere and have always been force-fed that 'humans are social creatures' adage when people can't understand when I say I am not lonely. With the internet and improvements to independent-agency, I think we're beginning to see how anti-social humans really are. Existing alone, I do feel bored once in a while... but not lonely.

2) I believe many-if-not-most people surround themselves with others in order to improve their feelings about themselves. For instance many people jump from one relationship to another and as a result they never spend time with themselves, so they never learn who they are. I imagine that these people really do feel a crippling sense of loneliness... because it's the well they've been pulling self-worth from for their entire lives.

3) The article references how men are unlikely to call into a phone line for a sense of community and theorizes that it is likely because they're shouldering the burden. More likely that it's because talking to a complete stranger and asking about each other's day is superficial and/or vain. The wood shop is a much better/cooler idea... as learning a new hobby is a good way to get with new people.

Re: Researchers Confront an Epidemic of Loneliness

#30

Post by aoiao »

fragola wrote: post #25
fallingfrog wrote: post #15

I have a feeling that this is all related to the entry of women into the workplace. Don't get me wrong; patriarchy is oppression and it has to go- but I think there were a lot of jobs being done by women which are now being done by nobody, and among those are the jobs of maintaining social cohesion and networking and so forth, which are a lot easier to do if you and your friends are somewhere other than at work at th…

Except for the fact that Japan actually has a very low rate of workplace participation for women, I agree with your comment. Feminists actually talk about this a lot, using the term "emotional labor"[0] It is a bit like how the decline of religiosity in the US has led to a decline in social participation. It's clear to me, at least, that whatever your opinion on these institutions (religion, patriarchy) there needs t…

Maybe it's just better to go on a date with someone you can see.
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