Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, traitor is not at all a loaded term. It has a precise meaning as found in Article III of the Constitution: > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
Snowden is not a US citizen, so "traitor" doesn't even apply.
Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
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Re: Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
#32It's remarkable to me the certitude with which the NYT commenters state that Snowden is a traitor. The trust they place in the Intelligence Community that he compromised national security. This despite the proof that in at least one other case, that of Chelsea Manning, the IC lied . This was confirmed yesterday, with the release of Clinton's FBI report[1]. [1]: http://www.vocativ.com/356350/fbi-clinton-spent-long-hou…
Traitor is obviously a loaded term, but Snowden surely broke the law and then fled the consequences. Maybe you think it's a bad law and he had good reasons, but it's not unreasonable for people to believe he should be in jail.
I know there's a class of civic/legal philosophy that says that people should stick around and face the consequences of breaking unjust laws, even if the law is unjust.
I admit, despite hearing the position stated, I've never really been able to reconcile why this would be deemed a reasonable position at all.
Clearly it plays to the interests of the authorities enacting the unjust laws, who would want people to be within their grasp and thus punished when the law is broken. And it would be beneficial for such people to try to instill in the general populace, and the lawbreakers themselves, beliefs that they should just stick around and "get what's coming to them".
But as a general philosophy I admit it seems prima facie absurd to me. If you believe that a law is so unjust that its ok to break it, i really don't see how a reasonable person would expect that a perpetrator should hang around and be punished. Have the strategic option to choose to do so to further one's ends, sure. But a duty or expectation that one should be punished for breaking an unjust law...I just can't compute it.
People with a... err...i can't think of a more appropriate word apart from "hard-on", so forgive the vernacular...for authority, sure, i can understand and predict they would have such a position. But I wouldn't call that reasonable.
If anything, it sounds like a nice example for an intro into discussing Nietzchean master/slave morality, or even the Ted Kaczynski's concept of oversocialization :P
Re: Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Traitor is obviously a loaded term, but Snowden surely broke the law and then fled the consequences. Maybe you think it's a bad law and he had good reasons, but it's not unreasonable for people to believe he should be in jail.
What about the unquestionable traitors at the NSA? Why is all the focus on Snowden?
Re: Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suppose I believe in non-interventionism. Does my continued stay in the US and participation in its imperalism-based economy mean any efforts of mine for justice are suspect? My point being that there are larger forces guiding our lives than our individual beliefs and actions. Or put another way: as long as Snowden criticizes the transgressions as he sees them of Russia, isn't this what credibility requires?
Frankly, yes. I think Socrates' letter to Crito[1] explains why participating in a society means we embody some of that society's values. If you are truly a hardliner when it comes to non-interventionism, continuing to live and take advantage of the United States' infrastructure and quality of life (which is what it is due to said policies) makes your position suspect. Kind of like eating meat while preaching vegetar…
To offer another analogy: If I work at a company which makes their money off pop up ads and I think that's unethical, so I pitch management on alternative revenue streams, then is my position suspect because I'm taking my paycheck from a shady ad tech company?
I think the analogy of preaching vegetarianism while eating meat is somewhere between preaching no-interventionalism while living in the country you were born in, and preaching non-interventionalism while personally bombing people on the other side of the world.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Snowden is not a US citizen, so "traitor" doesn't even apply.
Since when? AFAIK they only invalidated his passport.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Long, Strange Journey to Hollywood
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Frankly, yes. I think Socrates' letter to Crito[1] explains why participating in a society means we embody some of that society's values. If you are truly a hardliner when it comes to non-interventionism, continuing to live and take advantage of the United States' infrastructure and quality of life (which is what it is due to said policies) makes your position suspect. Kind of like eating meat while preaching vegetar…
> makes your position suspect To offer another analogy: If I work at a company which makes their money off pop up ads and I think that's unethical, so I pitch management on alternative revenue streams, then is my position suspect because I'm taking my paycheck from a shady ad tech company? I think the analogy of preaching vegetarianism while eating meat is somewhere between preaching no-interventionalism while living…