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Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

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Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#111

Post by eeZi »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #109
brownbat wrote: post #100

As a reminder: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_(software) I'm surprised the gaming chat programs don't get more crossover use. Well, I'm not surprised that a commercial project has a larger userbase than something that requires you to find a server. But I am surprised when, say, podcast hosts make jokes about lag or call quality on their Skype connections with guests. There…

I try to push Mumble over Skype, the main issue with Mumble is that it's not as easy to get into. You spend too much time configuring your client, finding a server, etc. Things that should be fairly trivial. Then you may spend more time figuring out why you're not being heard, or why nobody's hearing you. Mumble is great but there's too much friction involved. I prefer Discord[0] because it's so easy to use by compar…

Discord is just another centralized, closed platform.

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#112

Post by michaelmior »

PeterisP wrote: post #52
michaelmior wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reversing in the first place is almost certainly illegal if you were to check the Skype ToS. Making a profit off it is just asking for trouble. I could be wrong though.

ToS only applies to terms of continuing use of a service, if you're prepared to not be an user anymore, then the conditons of ToS are not worth the paper they're (not) written on, you can simply not accept those terms. Click-through and shrink-wrap licencing terms are not binding almost everywhere (they likely could be in USA, though). And while USA has DMCA, in most of the world copyright (as according to Berne conv…

If you're not going to be a user anymore, then what's the point in reversing the client anyway?

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#113

Post by PeterisP »

michaelmior wrote: post #112
PeterisP wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ToS only applies to terms of continuing use of a service, if you're prepared to not be an user anymore, then the conditons of ToS are not worth the paper they're (not) written on, you can simply not accept those terms. Click-through and shrink-wrap licencing terms are not binding almost everywhere (they likely could be in USA, though). And while USA has DMCA, in most of the world copyright (as according to Berne conv…

If you're not going to be a user anymore, then what's the point in reversing the client anyway?

For example, to distribute the system obtained by reverse engineering to your customers or include it in your product; none of this needs your engineers to be actual users of the (possibly competing) service. The interoperability exception in copyright laws is exactly for this purpose, to allow companies to distribute competing products that are interoperable with something that doesn't want others to interoperate. You're not required to make it easy for others to interoperate, but if they manage to do so, the government won't hold your copyright as a valid reason to forbid it.

Violating a law is "illegal" in the sense that it may result in penalties prescribed in that law.

Violating a contract is "illegal" in the sense that it may result in contractual penalties, generally limited to compensation of the damages, possibly with punitive tripling; but it may and should be done if the contract has gone so bad that it's better to face the consequences rather than fulfill the contract.

Violating ToS (which is not even a contract) is "illegal" if you really stretch that term; it may result in losing access to that service, and nothing else (excepting certain US-only legal perversions like CFAA which happily don't apply for most people in the world), so you may do that if the benefit outweighs continued access to that service.

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#114

Post by jamick »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #109
brownbat wrote: post #100

As a reminder: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_(software) I'm surprised the gaming chat programs don't get more crossover use. Well, I'm not surprised that a commercial project has a larger userbase than something that requires you to find a server. But I am surprised when, say, podcast hosts make jokes about lag or call quality on their Skype connections with guests. There…

I try to push Mumble over Skype, the main issue with Mumble is that it's not as easy to get into. You spend too much time configuring your client, finding a server, etc. Things that should be fairly trivial. Then you may spend more time figuring out why you're not being heard, or why nobody's hearing you. Mumble is great but there's too much friction involved. I prefer Discord[0] because it's so easy to use by compar…

Discord do have an experimental canary release for Linux.

deb: https://discordapp.com/api/download/canary?platform=linux

.tar.gz: https://discordapp.com/api/download/canary?platform=linux&fo...

https://www.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/4bu7lm/discord_...

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#115

Post by [deleted] »

PieterH wrote: post #59
jacquesm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telecommunications products should be based around open protocols. That Skype keeps their protocols to themselves should not be reason enough to send lawyers after software implementing interoperability after reverse engineering. Re-using the reverse engineered code is the problem, he should have simply used it to spec out the protocol and then use that spec to re-implement it.

One team documents the protocol as a spec. A second team takes the spec and writes implementations. The advantage of this for open source is that when the protocol changes, it's relatively simple for that first team to update the spec, and safe for the second team to update their code. This is legal and safe. It is how the first clone PCs survived even IBM's lawyers.

[deleted]

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#116

Post by aseipp »

eeZi wrote: post #111
giancarlostoro wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to push Mumble over Skype, the main issue with Mumble is that it's not as easy to get into. You spend too much time configuring your client, finding a server, etc. Things that should be fairly trivial. Then you may spend more time figuring out why you're not being heard, or why nobody's hearing you. Mumble is great but there's too much friction involved. I prefer Discord[0] because it's so easy to use by compar…

Discord is just another centralized, closed platform.

Right. And furthermore, Discord is free and totally propped up by investor money. Which means the day will come when the experience is totally ruined in an attempt to make money, as fast as possible.

Of course, I still willingly use Discord despite this - because it generally just works (even in browser) and has an extensive feature set, and is relatively easy to use. (this is among friends who aren't technical, so ease-of-use is a large factor). Previously I used Mumble, but indeed, it's a bit of a fickle beast for things that should be fairly automated (like configuring your voice inputs, etc).

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#117

Post by pbhjpbhj »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #109
brownbat wrote: post #100

As a reminder: https://github.com/mumble-voip/mumble https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumble_(software) I'm surprised the gaming chat programs don't get more crossover use. Well, I'm not surprised that a commercial project has a larger userbase than something that requires you to find a server. But I am surprised when, say, podcast hosts make jokes about lag or call quality on their Skype connections with guests. There…

I try to push Mumble over Skype, the main issue with Mumble is that it's not as easy to get into. You spend too much time configuring your client, finding a server, etc. Things that should be fairly trivial. Then you may spend more time figuring out why you're not being heard, or why nobody's hearing you. Mumble is great but there's too much friction involved. I prefer Discord[0] because it's so easy to use by compar…

Can you run your own server to save having try find one; should reduce the lag on one side too.

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#118

Post by pbhjpbhj »

extra88 wrote: post #62
amelius wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are probably joking, but didn't MS buy the code?

Yes, Microsoft bought Skype, it didn't create Skype. There have been many substantive changes since then (e.g. much less peer-to-peer in operation).

Is there any peer-to-peer now, I thought they routed everything through their own servers now?

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#119

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
martinko wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I'd not touch this with a 3-meter bargepole, because I live in a country where people use copyright and trademark law to take people to court, yet it's an interesting project. You feel using it would open you up to a copyright claim?

It is a derivation.

It's not a derivative of the presentation of the artistic elements of a work. It's derived from the technical working of a piece of software.

The elements of the software doing novel technical stuff might be patented, but copying the technical working is allowed. Copyright doesn't protect technical aspects.

If the project copies the UK of Skype, then that's a tort. If it copies the written code or uses the human reading of that code to derive a new codebase, then that's a tort. If it copies the technical implementation, how memory is accessed, what codecs are used, what packets are sent and when ... that's not copyright infringement.

Re: Skypeopensource2 – Skype client based on reversing Skype 5.5

#120

Post by extra88 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #118
extra88 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Microsoft bought Skype, it didn't create Skype. There have been many substantive changes since then (e.g. much less peer-to-peer in operation).

Is there any peer-to-peer now, I thought they routed everything through their own servers now?

I don't know. It seems stupid to entirely drop peer-to-peer but maybe that's the case now.
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