Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency • Hacker News Board

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#221

Post by curun1r » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:03 PM UTC

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #90

curun1r wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like yours are very dangerous. They buy into the DARE framing of the dangers of drugs being death. But there are much more subtle dangers that get ignored when the discussion is framed this way. And I say this as someone who went through a prolonged depression following ecstacy use in my early 20s. I stupidly evaluated the dangers of the drug and determined that the naysayers who were warning of possible dea…

I went through depression after my first relationship. We don't warn children about the dangers of relationships, we just expect that they'll "figure it out" just like everyone else. You figured out the dangers of high ecstasy usage yourself. Are you one of these people who thinks nobody but you is capable of figuring out how to use it safely?

The point was that I had to find out the dangers of prolonged ecstacy use the hard way because the dangers of the drug were so overblown by opponents and I didn't hear a more nuanced take on the subject. I cannot be the only one capable of figuring out how to use it safely because I did not figure out how to use it safely.

I just think that potential ecstacy users need to hear that there are consequences that can be very severe that don't work well as scare tactics. If they understand the risks and still choose to use, then more power to them. They've made an informed choice based on accurate information. But accurate information is the key and we do a disservice as a society by putting out the ridiculous message that ecstacy can kill you.

Oh, and to equate breakup misery with clinical depression is pretty ignorant. Depression has a specific meaning that doesn't equate to sadness.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#222

Post by namlem » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 3:58 PM UTC

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

LSD isn't addictive, but cannabis absolutely is. It's not very addictive, but it's still addictive.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#223

Post by AimHere » Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #218

AimHere wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the previous poster's claim is worse than that. This journalist does have notes and so if it mattered enough, those could be subjected to forensic examination to see if they're consistent with the time period of the interview. The poster is basically denying something for which there is almost certainly actual physical evidence corroborating Baum's story, as well as apparently defaming a professional journa…

Sorry, no, questioning a journalist's claims is not defamation. The family thinks this quote is bunk, too. "We never saw or heard anything from our dad, John Ehrlichman, that was derogatory about any person of color," wrote Peter Ehrlichman, Tom Ehrlichman, Jan Ehrlichman, Michael Ehrlichman and Jody E. Pineda in a statement provided to CNN. "The 1994 alleged 'quote' we saw repeated in social media for the first time…

> Sorry, no, questioning a journalist's claims is not defamation.

If you're falsely claiming a journalist is lying, it damn well is. We're talking about someone who referred to his notes of an interview and flat out quoted Erlichman by name with a lengthy quote. If you're contradicting him, it's hard to see how you're suggesting an innocent misquote - either Baum is lying or you're wrong.

> The family thinks this quote is bunk, too.

The family clearly doesn't know shit about Ehrlichman's racist views. He was caught on one of Nixon's tapes, released in 2003, ranting that black people were sexual degenerates with no family values, and in another tape that black people should be stuck in boxcars to work as domestics.

I'd point you at the recordings (good luck denying those), but the Nixon archives are really hard to search, so it might take some time. The latter is quoted in John Dean's book "The Nixon Defence", but google books isn't giving up the footnote today!

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#224

Post by fnj » Tue, Sep 06, 2016, 7:13 AM UTC

namlem wrote: post #222

fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

LSD isn't addictive, but cannabis absolutely is. It's not very addictive, but it's still addictive.

I favor precision in language. One may develop a cannabis psychic dependency or habit, but addiction means physical dependence including a real physical withdrawal syndrome.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#225

Post by eggy » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 12:09 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #219

eggy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, I didn't downvote you. I think you are splitting hairs here on rape. OK, 8 years average conviction on rape, if the victim pursues it. Still 8 years with possible time off for good behavior on a very violent crime vs. Selling LSD -> life sentence. I still fail to see aside from the law how you think the punishment is in proportion to the actions, which was the point I was trying to convey.

Well I'm not sure someone serving 8 years vs 4 years would agree with you. Its double the amount, I'm not sure I would say that's splitting hairs. Time off is a fact of many sentences in an overcrowded penal system. I never stated that I agreed with the sentencing guidelines, which I absolutely and emphatically do not. What I said was that there was a reason in the eyes of the law for using weight including paper as…

I think your arguments were rational. Splitting hairs is not the difference between 4 or 8 years, but compared to life, or around 60 to 75 years depending on your incarceration age. I do agree with you pointing out that it was a multiple offense, and selling not buying to use. Still, life? And questions of mental health too.