Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency • Hacker News Board

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#141

Post by mgr86 » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 1:44 PM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #3

The downside of this, sadly, is that he appears to have mental health issues. Unless he has some outside support, which may be difficult with his dad being dead and having been incarcerated since something like 1994, he would be rather likely to end up on the street, alone :( Here's hoping there are people on the outside to help him out.

>with his dad being dead --

For those unaware his father died in Prison. Why was he in Prison? Well the son committed the crime in the house the father owned. His father died 8 years into a 10 year prison sentence. Cruel.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#142

Post by Nursie » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 1:47 PM UTC

CoryG89 wrote: post #128

Nursie wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you disagree but the data really isn't on your side here. I'm not sure why you find it offending. The line between alcohol use and abuse is a very fine one, plenty of people cross it all the time. Many of them end up dead. If you look at all the people who try, say, cannabis, and count who gets addicted and who dies or gets sick from it, then compare those percentages to alcohol, alcohol comes out far, far wors…

Alcohol is not physically addictive in the same way opiates or cocaine is addictive. It's silly to be scared of becoming "addicted" to alcohol. After many years of abuse, alcoholics can get to the point that their bodies dont function properly without some alcohol, but they already have to have a problem for many years to get to that point.

Also, alcohol is very habit forming, regardless of physical addiction.

What's silly to me is that alcohol somehow gets excused from its acute effects (overdose deaths, accidents) and its chronic effects (cirrhosis, premature aging, weight gain, cancer and all sorts of other stuff, because it's just a beer... but drugs, nooo, drugs are evil, the big bad boogeyman.

Like alcohol some how isn't a drug!

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#143

Post by AimHere » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #84

andrei_says_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m sa…

I think this quote is complete bunk. It comes from here: http://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ This is Dan Baum recalling a conversation with a dead Ehrlichmann after he got out of prison, 20 years after he served with Nixon. Dan puts quotes around this passage but I don't believe for a second that that is what Ehrlichmann said. And Ehrlichmann died 17 years ago, so he's not around to defend himself.

When you say 'recalling a conversation', you mean going over notes from the time he interviewed Ehrlichmann for a book. Given that Baum is a professional journalist, whose career depends on being able to accurately quote people, I reckon it's a bit better sourced that your phrasing suggests.

Note also that Erlichmann's family based their denial of the Baum story partly on the notion that he never said anything racist in front of them - though his propensity for racism is definitely confirmed in the Watergate tapes.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#144

Post by CoryG89 » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 1:56 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #132

CoryG89 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where they are getting their 25% figure for heroin in your linked article. They link to yet another article as a source, but I see no mention of the 25% there. The claim seems to be that only 25% of people who try the drug once will end up being addicts. While I doubt this claim in itself, I think this percentage would go way up if you looked only at people who had reasonable access/resources to acquire…

Alcohol is physically addictive, certainly. Withdrawal can kill people with a particularly bad habit. It may not be addictive in an identical way to heroin, but it is addictive, much more so than the other two you mention.

Well, the other two (pot and LSD) are not physically addictive at all, so it would be impossible to be less addictive than that.

Yes, alcohol can have physical withdrawal symptoms for people that stop after already having abused the drug for long periods of time.

According to what I am able to find, even of alcoholics already with a long term problem, only 50% experience withdrawal at all, and only 3 to 5 percent of that 50% experience DTs (tremors) or seizures.

As far as I can tell, even these withdrawal symptoms result from damage to the nervous system, rather than being due to a sudden desaturation of certain receptors in the brain, which cause the craving most associate with addiction.

The big difference for me is the difference in the craving aspect, and the time and number of doses it takes to start feeling the effects of the "addiction".

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1407298

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#145

Post by Practicality » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 1:58 PM UTC

wastedhours wrote: post #96

Nursie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they aren't drinking to get "out of their heads" but they will at least partially be drinking for the relaxation properties, or the social lubricant properties of the drink. Yes, people enjoy the taste of these things, they have trained themselves to, usually because of the effects. FYI not everyone using every other drug is trying to get "out of their head" either. A little cannabis or sedative use may be for…

But my point is that it can be enjoyed solely for the taste - whether you like it or not, there is at least an element of flavour choice when it comes to alcohol. It's an exceptionally skewed view to totally dismiss the taste aspect - whereas I've yet to hear anyone mention that drugs can be taken for any other reason than for their (even if only slight) mind altering affects. Plenty of people would pair a nice red w…

I am with you on this. I've had some pretty awesome flavors coming from alcoholic drinks.

It's expensive, and I don't make any friends by drinking expensive drinks (my friends don't really care)

I would love to see someone make "virgin" versions of various stronger drinks I like, but so far they don't taste anywhere near as good.

It sincerely annoys me that drinks make me sleepy and such. I'm only having one or two, but I would like to still be able to study and play chess, AND have nice flavors.

I've even starting trying to find creative ways to water them down without losing flavor so I can enjoy them without the side-effects.

(I should probably mention that I don't really enjoy "sweet" flavors, so part of it is that only alcoholic drinks get the bitter/sour flavors done well)

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#146

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 2:06 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #87

bogomipz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LSD doses are measured in micrograms so 1 gram is in fact a substantial amount. Do the research. Theres a difference between opinion and fact. https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

That's the point! Yes, doses are in the order of 100-150 micrograms, for a basic dose. 100ug will do as an approximation. How many doses of 100ug are there in 1g? Oooh... About 10,000. So yes, 1g of crystal is a substantial amount, that's the point. Compared to a handful of doses on a gram of paper, it makes a mockery of the law if I were to be charged the same way whichever of the two I was carrying. (Of course the…

No thats not the point. With LSD the paper is the unit of distribution. Its the dosage vector. A sheet of of acid which is comprised of 100 hits of acid. So by considering the amount of surface area or weight is what allows the law to decide if the amount comprises personal consumption vs distribution.

So when the law is trying to decide how much of a threat the contraband is to society the potential damage of a sheet of acid us much much greater than a hit or a couple of hits(smaller pieces of paper.)

What are you proposing that the acid be recovered from the paper? What would that do? There's no threshold below which you are permitted to posses lysergic acid in the United States.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#147

Post by CoryG89 » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #134

CoryG89 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol is not physically addictive in the same way opiates or cocaine is addictive. It's silly to be scared of becoming "addicted" to alcohol. After many years of abuse, alcoholics can get to the point that their bodies dont function properly without some alcohol, but they already have to have a problem for many years to get to that point.

Alcohol is considered one of the more addictive drugs, when compared to LSD, cannabis, ketamine, ecstasy and all sorts of other recreational substances. It just pales in comparison to heroin and cocaine. And meth.

I agree with you there. Although, I don't really think LSD, cannabis, ketamine, or ecstasy are addictive at all, other than being potentially habit forming, which just about anything can be.

I would just put alcohol more in the habit forming category though, maybe a bit more potential than cannabis over the very long term.

Opiates, cocaine, amphetamines, meth, benzos, and even Ambien are in another league.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#148

Post by bogomipz » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

CoryG89 wrote: post #108

bogomipz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The carrier weight is significant because its proportional to the amount of substance, the paper is the distribution vector. Someone caught with a sheet of LSD is carrying significantly more than a single tab of LSD. The latter defying "personal consumption. And personal consumption vs intent to distribute is significantly different. While I don't believe that non-violent drug offenders should be locked up for life,…

> The carrier weight is significant because its proportional to the amount of substance This is not true. I can take a clean sheet of paper and dissolve as much LSD (or as little) on it as desired. 1g of near-pure crystal will definitely contain thousands of doses. 1g of paper could contain anything from 0, 1, 10, or 100 doses or more.

Now what would be point in that? Sure you can do that but in practice this is not at all how it works. Drugs are a business. You can also sell pure cocaine but it is never done at the retail level because it would be a completely non-sensical business decision. The unit of purchase is a single tab. More tabs equal more paper.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#149

Post by elbrownos » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #114

elbrownos wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the Philippines. President Duterte has summarily executed nearly 2,000 suspected drug dealers and users since July 1st and vowed to execute 98,000 more. http://time.com/4462352/rodrigo-duterte-drug-war-drugs-phili...

How are the words "executed" and "suspected" in the same sentence?!

The Philippines even gets a mention in the Wikipedia entry on summary execution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_execution

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#150

Post by Nursie » Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 2:14 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #146

Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point! Yes, doses are in the order of 100-150 micrograms, for a basic dose. 100ug will do as an approximation. How many doses of 100ug are there in 1g? Oooh... About 10,000. So yes, 1g of crystal is a substantial amount, that's the point. Compared to a handful of doses on a gram of paper, it makes a mockery of the law if I were to be charged the same way whichever of the two I was carrying. (Of course the…

No thats not the point. With LSD the paper is the unit of distribution. Its the dosage vector. A sheet of of acid which is comprised of 100 hits of acid. So by considering the amount of surface area or weight is what allows the law to decide if the amount comprises personal consumption vs distribution. So when the law is trying to decide how much of a threat the contraband is to society the potential damage of a shee…

I'm not proposing anything, I'm suggestig that anything drawing an equivalent between weight of raw LSD and paper blotters is pants-on-head retarded.

Legislate penalty by doses if you want, but the fact remains that someone with ten mg of crystal is carrying with them just as many doses as someone carrying a few g of blotters.