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Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

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Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#91

Post by Broken_Hippo »

Nursie wrote: post #87
bogomipz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LSD doses are measured in micrograms so 1 gram is in fact a substantial amount. Do the research. Theres a difference between opinion and fact. https://erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

That's the point! Yes, doses are in the order of 100-150 micrograms, for a basic dose. 100ug will do as an approximation. How many doses of 100ug are there in 1g? Oooh... About 10,000. So yes, 1g of crystal is a substantial amount, that's the point. Compared to a handful of doses on a gram of paper, it makes a mockery of the law if I were to be charged the same way whichever of the two I was carrying. (Of course the…

Completely agreed.

The gram of paper is still mostly paper. Sure it could have varying amounts of actual acid on it, but still mostly paper.

it would be like if the ml in alcohol were measured along with the glass bottle it comes in - and something with low alcohol volume (say beer) would get you just as much time as a 100 proof whiskey or moonshine.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#92

Post by Nursie »

wastedhours wrote: post #73
Nursie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Maybe they aren't drinking to get "out of their heads" but they will at least partially be drinking for the relaxation properties, or the social lubricant properties of the drink.

Yes, people enjoy the taste of these things, they have trained themselves to, usually because of the effects.

FYI not everyone using every other drug is trying to get "out of their head" either. A little cannabis or sedative use may be for relaxation. A little stimulant to stay awake and increase talkativeness and confidence. LSD does rather take people somewhere else though...

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#93

Post by Nursie »

wastedhours wrote: post #73
Nursie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't for the effect, nobody would bother acquiring the taste for beer or wine... Alcohol is, for the vast majority of the time, taken solely for the impact on the mind.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Also brandy is fecking gross...

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#94

Post by Broken_Hippo »

curun1r wrote: post #89
fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

Comments like yours are very dangerous. They buy into the DARE framing of the dangers of drugs being death. But there are much more subtle dangers that get ignored when the discussion is framed this way. And I say this as someone who went through a prolonged depression following ecstacy use in my early 20s. I stupidly evaluated the dangers of the drug and determined that the naysayers who were warning of possible dea…

Folks go through depression after prolonged alcohol use as well, and likelwise use it to treat their own depression. But it is still legal. We tend to ignore a lot of subtle dangers of alcohol as well - or overemphasize them in some contexts.

Unfortunately, a lot of the context of illegal drugs is of the overemphasizing sort instead of normal, down-to-earth information taking good with the bad. Which leads to some things like your situation and stupid behavior.

Besides, it is really difficult to sort that depression stuff out. Pot and hash can induce panic attacks in a small portion of the population, but in general that only happens if they have a predisposition to it or if they have an untreated anxiety condition. And it seems to be the same sort of thing with other drugs - and I'm going to guess that it only happens with a small portion of users in reality, much like most folks don't get addicted to most drugs. I fully believe to get over that sort of hump, we not only need balanced and completely truthful information on drugs, but we also need to be able to have truthful and destigmatised discussion about mental health in addition to having facilities available to help folks out.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#95

Post by Broken_Hippo »

hutzlibu wrote: post #79
fnj wrote: post #75

I get that the right to consume any substance one wants into one's own body is a basic human right, but outlawing LSD and cannabis are two cases of outrageous, striking dumbness and pointlessness. Neither one is addictive, and the LD50 of each is an incredible number of orders of magnitude higher than a normal dose. It is virtually impossible to harm yourself.

While I do agree that it is a human right to consume anything you want, I very much disagree that "It is virtually impossible to harm yourself" with LSD or Ganja ... Just because you can't really physically kill yourself with the drug, doesn't mean it can't do you bad otherwise.

Minus the legality issues, neither of these have shown to be any worse than some of the dangers of alcohol. Either can be bad for folks with severe mental illness of certain types. It probably isn't safe to drive on LSD, and you'd not really want to be too stoned (or drunk) to take care of your kids.

But this same sort of stuff is true for so many other things. If it were that bad, I'm pretty sure there would be many more problems in places like Amsterdam.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#96

Post by wastedhours »

Nursie wrote: post #92
wastedhours wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Maybe they aren't drinking to get "out of their heads" but they will at least partially be drinking for the relaxation properties, or the social lubricant properties of the drink. Yes, people enjoy the taste of these things, they have trained themselves to, usually because of the effects. FYI not everyone using every other drug is trying to get "out of their head" either. A little cannabis or sedative use may be for…

But my point is that it can be enjoyed solely for the taste - whether you like it or not, there is at least an element of flavour choice when it comes to alcohol. It's an exceptionally skewed view to totally dismiss the taste aspect - whereas I've yet to hear anyone mention that drugs can be taken for any other reason than for their (even if only slight) mind altering affects.

Plenty of people would pair a nice red with their pasta even if it had no other impact on their mental faculties, same with other drinks and food. I'm perplexed at such an unhealthy view of alcohol.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#97

Post by Nursie »

tigershark wrote: post #61
hasbroslasher wrote: post #40

Always amazes me that LSD is illegal while alcohol is legal, the latter causing all host of metal and physical ailments, the former causing mostly hilarious navel-gazing

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

The thing is that alcohol is objectively more dangerous and more harmful than many/most illegal drugs.

It has both acute and chronic health effects, it's addictive and it causes (or at least facilitates) all sorts of social problems including a lot of violence. It kills its users and its users sometimes kill or hurt other people when under its influence.

It always amazes me how willing people are to overlook the evils of alcohol while highlighting the evils of other drugs.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#98

Post by wastedhours »

vidarh wrote: post #81
wastedhours wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Most alcoholic drinks are extremely acquired tastes. Try finding people who haven't drunk much alcohol before adulthood and give them tastes of a selection of beers and wines, and I'd be willing to bet that most would find most of them disgusting. I'm 41, and I still haven't acquired a taste for beer. I find it absolutely awful. I can tolerate most wines, but outside of extremely sweet dessert wines I have never tast…

There's a very similar argument for dark chocolate - most children hate the taste, but as their palettes develop they acquire the taste for it. My parents introduced alcohol to us from a young age so that it was never a rebellious activity in later years - but since we're in the land of anecdotes again, my original opinion still holds: noone has ever argued they take drugs because they enjoy anything other than the mind altering effects, whereas there are plenty of people who enjoy alcohol for reasons other than those.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#99

Post by Nursie »

wastedhours wrote: post #96
Nursie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they aren't drinking to get "out of their heads" but they will at least partially be drinking for the relaxation properties, or the social lubricant properties of the drink. Yes, people enjoy the taste of these things, they have trained themselves to, usually because of the effects. FYI not everyone using every other drug is trying to get "out of their head" either. A little cannabis or sedative use may be for…

But my point is that it can be enjoyed solely for the taste - whether you like it or not, there is at least an element of flavour choice when it comes to alcohol. It's an exceptionally skewed view to totally dismiss the taste aspect - whereas I've yet to hear anyone mention that drugs can be taken for any other reason than for their (even if only slight) mind altering affects. Plenty of people would pair a nice red w…

>> Plenty of people would pair a nice red with their pasta even if it had no other impact on their mental faculties

If it had no effect they likely wouldn't have acquired the taste, so I doubt very much they would in significant numbers, no.

There is an element of flavoir choice. But just look at how many concoctions there are that are, at least the popular ones, designed specifically to make drinking alcohol a more flavourful experience, and to hide the taste of the base alcohol as much as possible while still getting it into the drinker.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe that, absent the positive effects of the alcohol, anyone would drink much booze.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#100

Post by Nursie »

wastedhours wrote: post #96
Nursie wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they aren't drinking to get "out of their heads" but they will at least partially be drinking for the relaxation properties, or the social lubricant properties of the drink. Yes, people enjoy the taste of these things, they have trained themselves to, usually because of the effects. FYI not everyone using every other drug is trying to get "out of their head" either. A little cannabis or sedative use may be for…

But my point is that it can be enjoyed solely for the taste - whether you like it or not, there is at least an element of flavour choice when it comes to alcohol. It's an exceptionally skewed view to totally dismiss the taste aspect - whereas I've yet to hear anyone mention that drugs can be taken for any other reason than for their (even if only slight) mind altering affects. Plenty of people would pair a nice red w…

Oh and IMHO, people are drinking that glass of red because they like the feeling of what a small dose of alcohol does to them. It's all bound up in the taste acquisition.

FYI one can teach oneself to enjoy the taste of amphetamines, if one creates enough positive associations with their use. I've been there.

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