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Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

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Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#111

Post by CoryG89 »

bogomipz wrote: post #85
eggy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that, and I get your point, but LSD, or marijuana, to me are not in the same league as heroin or cocaine and the amounts those are usually traded in along with the gangs and violence associated with them. I'm not at all addressing the law; I am expressing surprise over the extreme sentence in comparison to what I think are worse crimes. Rapists get what, 4 years in the US if prosecuted? There were/are people s…

But there are two different things - selling and using. Using is only marginally criminalized. Selling and distributing is a much more serious offense. Alcohol in some ways is no different. I can home brew all I want and bottle it and put it in the refrigerator. If throw the garage door open and start selling it to the general public I can expect some trouble from the legal system. Crossing state boundaries and using…

You can't assure rapists don't get 4 years (or less):

> The convictions carried a potential sentence of 14 years in prison. Prosecutors recommended six years in prison while probation officials recommended a "moderate" county jail sentence.[19] On June 2, 2016, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to six months confinement in the Santa Clara County jail to be followed by three years of probation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#112

Post by kgwgk »

ghshephard wrote: post #65
tigershark wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes me how many people on HN trivialise extremely dangerous drugs saying that alcohol is more dangerous. I'd rather stay in a room with someone that drinks a glass of wine a day than with someone that assumes LSD every day.

Some objective research is useful here. Lancet did an evaluation across multiple spectrums, harm to self, harm to environment, harm to society, harm to others, crime, etc... ( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/47635105_Nutt_DJ_Ki... ) - in particular, check out the graph down the page. Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances, LSD ranks far lower in this scale. Importantly, Alcohol results…

> Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances

Because it is the most popular one. The "harm to others" part of the score is not per user. At the margin, one typical heroin or crack consumer creates more costs to society than one typical alcohol consumer.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#113

Post by kgwgk »

Nursie wrote: post #104
tigershark wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's give anyone that wants a glass of wine a shot of heroin then, we'll save the world because we are giving them a chance to use a less dangerous drugs. I'll be quite curious to see how it goes, as you say only 25% of heroin users might become addicted. And of course more than 1/4 of the people that drinks a glass of wine is an addict, as you can see around you. :)

Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol? The post you reply to compares alcohol and LSD. The abstract of the linked paper says that heroin is one of the most harmful drugs, more so than alcohol to the user, but grouped with alcohol in terms of harm to others.

> Where did you read that heroin was less harmful than alcohol?

Maybe he read it in the message he was replying to?

"Alcohol is unquestionably the more destructive of substances"

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#114

Post by StavrosK »

elbrownos wrote: post #82
eggy wrote: post #48

It's crazy to spend that much time in jail for a nonviolent offense, and such a small amount of substance in the US. The war on drugs is a big waste of many things. But to put it in perspective, I am currently living in SE Asia where you are informed by airline announcements and signs that drug trafficking is punishable by death in several of the countries here! I'm from Brooklyn, but I live in Indonesia now. I'm cur…

You forgot the Philippines. President Duterte has summarily executed nearly 2,000 suspected drug dealers and users since July 1st and vowed to execute 98,000 more. http://time.com/4462352/rodrigo-duterte-drug-war-drugs-phili...

How are the words "executed" and "suspected" in the same sentence?!

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#115

Post by CoryG89 »

Nursie wrote: post #99
wastedhours wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But my point is that it can be enjoyed solely for the taste - whether you like it or not, there is at least an element of flavour choice when it comes to alcohol. It's an exceptionally skewed view to totally dismiss the taste aspect - whereas I've yet to hear anyone mention that drugs can be taken for any other reason than for their (even if only slight) mind altering affects. Plenty of people would pair a nice red w…

>> Plenty of people would pair a nice red with their pasta even if it had no other impact on their mental faculties If it had no effect they likely wouldn't have acquired the taste, so I doubt very much they would in significant numbers, no. There is an element of flavoir choice. But just look at how many concoctions there are that are, at least the popular ones, designed specifically to make drinking alcohol a more…

For the most part I would agree with you, but historically this hasn't always been the case.

Before modern times, the quality of water was terrible pretty much everywhere. Because of this, many regularly drank alcoholic drinks instead of water because it was cleaner due to the alcohol it contained.

Although they weren't drinking it because it paired well with their pasta, many times they also weren't drinking it because of the impact on their mental faculties.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#116

Post by StavrosK »

vidarh wrote: post #81
wastedhours wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I know I have no data to back up my point that all drugs are only taken for their impact on the mind, but I know that alcohol isn't solely taken for its impact on the mind. Wine is tasty. Beer is tasty. Brandy is tasty. And (anecdotally) know many people who aren't just drinking them to get out of their heads...

Most alcoholic drinks are extremely acquired tastes. Try finding people who haven't drunk much alcohol before adulthood and give them tastes of a selection of beers and wines, and I'd be willing to bet that most would find most of them disgusting. I'm 41, and I still haven't acquired a taste for beer. I find it absolutely awful. I can tolerate most wines, but outside of extremely sweet dessert wines I have never tast…

I'm the same way, and I don't think many people first tasted beer or other alcoholic drinks and said "wow, this is very tasty". Especially whiskey, which I find repulsive.

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#119

Post by Nursie »

StavrosK wrote: post #114
elbrownos wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the Philippines. President Duterte has summarily executed nearly 2,000 suspected drug dealers and users since July 1st and vowed to execute 98,000 more. http://time.com/4462352/rodrigo-duterte-drug-war-drugs-phili...

How are the words "executed" and "suspected" in the same sentence?!

It's basically mob justice over there, AFAICT

Re: Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency

#120

Post by pluma »

eropple wrote: post #42
ellisdewalt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's dumb because even if they wanted to have that severe of a punishment for LSD specifically, they could do math and just make the sentence greater for smaller amounts of actual drug. Be as cynical as you like, but we'd see equivalent exaggerations for every other drug if your line of thinking made sense.

It depends on the audience for those drugs and their relationship to the people making laws. Take, for example, crack versus cocaine. Crack and cocaine are nearly identical drugs. Crack has the same sentence for one gram as cocaine does for eighteen. (The disparity used to be five times greater before 2010.) But crack users are more likely to be black, low-income, and less educated. I can't imagine why they'd be a pr…

Crack and Cocaine are nearly identical from a chemical perspective, but not from how they are used and their effect: http://www.attn.com/stories/2643/crack-vs-cocaine

It's comforting to think it's all just a ploy to get at black people (like how cannabis was rebranded as "marijuana" because it associates it with those pesky Mexicans everybody hates) but there are valid reasons to be more afraid of crack than of cocaine despite both sharing practically the same active ingredient.

EDIT: I'm not saying the War on Drugs doesn't particularly affect people of color more than other groups, or whether that is intentional or not, but pointing at the active ingredients and saying "look, they're the same except racism" is simplistic.

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