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Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

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Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#141

Post by overcast »

clarry wrote: post #133
overcast wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People, like myself, don't want to buy into someone's problems. Sure you pay a bit less, but you also have a bit less car. 35,000 miles into a car, how long before you need to buy just another used car? I buy new, and then run it into the ground after the warranty runs out. Typically by then, normal defects have been covered. Change your own oil, filters, tires. Keep up with things like alignments, wash/wax, and keep…

A bit less, or maybe a lot less. If you're buying an used car, you take your time to look for signs that tell about how well it's been taken care of (or abused). And of course you take it for a test drive. I don't think there are that many critical (as in very expensive / impossible to repair) defects that you can't spot by looking, feeling, smelling, and listening. In my case, I got my newest car just a few weeks ag…

As I'm not a mechanic, I'd rather not deal with it. You sound like someone who enjoys tinkering around with cars. The time you spend keeping a car with 230,000km on it running, I am spending doing other things. And unless that previous owner was obsessive compulsive, it's certainly going to have some funk after that amount of time. I want a car to provide its purpose, with the least path of resistance.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#142

Post by nicky0 »

thinkcontext wrote: post #121
andykellr wrote: post #44

Unless Tesla goes out of business and nobody manages to produce a similar electric car, I will never buy a gas car again. Electric cars are quick, fun, quiet, clean, safe, and convenient. It would feel like a big step backwards for me to buy a gas car again. They're not for everyone right now and I think it will take a long time to reach significant penetration, but more people will try it and many will never go back…

The Chevy Bolt will beat the Model 3 to market and have similar specs, ~$37K and 200 mile range.

Good to see there's going to be more choice at a lower price in the near future.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#143

Post by petra »

evandijk70 wrote: post #84
kylec wrote: post #17

I was talking to my father a few weeks ago about electric cars, and I wanted to quantify how much going electric would save him so I ran some numbers. Where he lives gas is currently somewhere around $2.20/gallon. His car gets around 30mpg combined, so he's paying ~$0.073/mile. Tesla's website contains a "charging estimator" for the Model S, which estimates a cost of $12.04 for a total charge of 300 miles in a 90D. I…

I guess it makes a lot more sense to own an electric car in Europe, where gasoline prices are around 1,50 euro per liter, or $6,50/gallon, while electricity prices are around $0.20/kWh. Still, recharging an electric car is still a lot more inconvenient than refueling a normal car.

But the tax difference is just temporary - if EV's become popular - charging will be taxed too.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#144

Post by Grishnakh »

evgen wrote: post #127
mixmastamyk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also maintenance costs are lower for electric cars.

An assertion that has yet to be proven. While an electric car has fewer moving parts to wear out, those parts that do need maintenance are going to be specialized pieces of electronics and power distribution kit that will cost far more than a few spark plugs and a new muffler.

That's not really true. The OP claimed that the maintenance costs are lower. "Specialized pieces of electronics and power distribution kit" are not involved in maintenance, those are repair parts you're talking about. Maintenance and repair are two different things: one is something you do proactively because some parts are designed for limited life and must be replaced periodically to keep the system in good running condition, whereas the other is something you do when something unforeseen breaks down. A spark plug is a maintenance item; a spark plug coil is somewhere in the middle but closer to a repair part (they do fail, but not often and usually after a very long time, they usually last the life of the car), whereas an ECU is absolutely a repair part because it should never need replacement. "Specialized pieces of electronics" also should not fail for the life of the vehicle.

Why this is important is that a car can easily have very low maintenance costs, but very high repair costs. European luxury cars (sold in the US) are a good example of this: they're very reliable these days and shouldn't be hard or expensive to service (filters don't cost that much, oil is standard), but repair costs for a BMW or Mercedes are outrageous by most accounts because factory parts are very expensive for those brands, whereas similar parts for a more pedestrian American or Japanese brand are usually much cheaper.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#145

Post by Grishnakh »

evgen wrote: post #129
outworlder wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do. But keep in mind they have way less parts, moving or otherwise. Spark plugs, cables, the entire engine cooling system, fuel pumps, all of that is missing. It boils down to: battery (big unknown, but seem to be holding up surprisingly well), engine (incredibly simple!), no transmission or a very simple one (Nissan Leaf has a single gear), inverter, charger, brakes, and the standard 12V battery you find in all…

Wow, electirc cars are so simple it is surprising that so few companies make them! The moving parts in a car are pieces that 1) have multiple manufacturers and are relatively cheap to replace, and 2) can be replaced by a wide range of repair shops so that competition can keep a check on the overall replacement costs. What you left out of your electric car list are all of the specialized electronics and only-for-this-…

False comparison. Your gas car also has specialized electronics, namely the ECU, the ABS system, the SRS system, which are all needed for the car to be operational. Good luck finding an aftermarket ECU for your car.

There's no more "only-for-this-car" equipment in an EV than in any other car; the main difference is that with so many models of gas cars made by each maker, they reuse a lot of parts between models, so there's economies of scale. In an EV future, the same would be true for EVs. You're not going to swap an axle from a Chevy into a Honda, or from a Honda Civic into a Honda Ridgeline, so even here it's limited. And you're not going to swap a door panel from a 2017 Civic into any other car at all, or from any other car into that one; those are only-for-this-car items; every car has those.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#146

Post by Grishnakh »

foxylad wrote: post #45

I just bought a 2014 Nissan Leaf. It's excellent and I'd recommend one (with a couple of caveats, see below). A few (hopefully) interesting comments: There's no premium for being "cool" or "green" any more. It cost 26,000 NZD for a 2014 Japanese import, which is about the same as an ICE (internal combustion engine) two-year-year-old mid-level vehicle costs (yes, NZ car prices are mad). And I'm guessing the trend will…

You're overstating how much maintenance a modern gas car needs, and understating how much long-term maintenance and repairs an EV will need.

A modern car with automatic transmission needs the fluid changed maybe 100k miles, and oil change intervals have gone up too; 7500 miles is more normal, and many cars with computers telling when to change the oil (based on actual driving conditions) are giving intervals of 10k. These are generally pretty easy to do yourself too. Most other service intervals are similarly long, usually not until 100k miles: coolant, brake fluid, etc. Brake pads usually last 50k-100k miles, but this depends a lot on how you drive. Modern spark plugs last 50-100k. Cars don't have distributors any more so you don't need to replace the cap and rotor and wires like you used to.

On your EV, you probably won't need to change the brake pads as often because of regenerative braking, but they are still there. However, some things will not change: it'll still need tires just as often as a gas car, and anything related to the wheels, tires, and suspension is no different than a gas car. You may still need to replace a wheel bearing at 125k, for instance, or a ball joint (these things usually wear out faster if you drive on rough roads). Your windshield will still get cracks from rocks and need to be replaced. Your brake fluid will still need to be replaced (100-120k probably), even though you aren't using them as much. Your A/C will probably need recharge or repair or even a new compressor after 100-150k miles or 10 years. And worst of all, you might need to replace the battery pack after 50-100k miles (we really don't know that much about how long these last yet, and it probably depends on the model; Teslas seem to last longer because they don't get discharged as much in regular usage).

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#147

Post by Grishnakh »

pdwetz wrote: post #5
kalleboo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're just commuting, an electric car has it's own convenience - every morning it's full up and ready to go as it's been charging in your garage all night. No need to even think about remaining range or if you need to fill up or what gas station to go to.

Unless you renting and don't have access to a plug. Or want to go on a weekend trip. Electric is interesting, but nothing more as a result for me personally.

Once in a while, I need to move. I don't own a U-Haul-sized moving van and drive it to work every day just because of this; instead, I rent such a truck when I need it.

If you're married or cohabiting, you most likely have two vehicles anyway. You're not going to bring both of them when you go on a weekend outing with your significant other or family, so having one EV just for commuting absolutely can make financial sense in that situation. There's a reason many families have one nice car and one crappy beater car; the beater gets used for one person's commute, and the nice car is used for the other's commute plus family trips.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#148

Post by Grishnakh »

honkhonkpants wrote: post #6
dpweb wrote: post #3

All for electric cars here, but think a minute about the convienence of gasoline auto travel, especially refueling at a gas station. They must get electric charging stations everywhere, but they also must reduce the 30 to 60 min. Recharging time. Gas is what 2 minutes? Especially in the age of tech and gadgets people will not stand for LESS convienence, only more. Replacing gas will take a while.

Couldn't agree more! When I go on a car trip I want it to be a long way away, and a long way from any thing. That's why most electric cars can't be my only car, and I don't want two cars either. For someone like me a plug-in hybrid like the Volt makes a lot more sense because I can drive it ten hours out into the desert when I want to. The only reason we're reaching a tipping point in the American car market is becau…

>The only reason we're reaching a tipping point in the American car market is because families with two cars are so common. If you have two cars it makes perfect sense to have one that can go around your city, and another one that can go anywhere.

This is exactly right, and I'm glad I finally see someone one these forums saying this. You're probably the first one. I find it rather sad that most people on a forum like this cannot conceive of this at all, presumably because they're all single.

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#149

Post by slededit »

Grishnakh wrote: post #145
evgen wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, electirc cars are so simple it is surprising that so few companies make them! The moving parts in a car are pieces that 1) have multiple manufacturers and are relatively cheap to replace, and 2) can be replaced by a wide range of repair shops so that competition can keep a check on the overall replacement costs. What you left out of your electric car list are all of the specialized electronics and only-for-this-…

False comparison. Your gas car also has specialized electronics, namely the ECU, the ABS system, the SRS system, which are all needed for the car to be operational. Good luck finding an aftermarket ECU for your car. There's no more "only-for-this-car" equipment in an EV than in any other car; the main difference is that with so many models of gas cars made by each maker, they reuse a lot of parts between models, so t…

There are lots of aftermarket ECUs [1]. Usually only performance tuners buy them, but there's no reason you couldn't get one for other reasons. That said a junkyard ECU is going to be a much easier fix.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=aftermarket+ECU&ie=utf-8&oe=...

Re: Why Electric Cars Will Be Here Sooner Than You Think

#150

Post by fma »

secabeen wrote: post #138
fma wrote: post #10

I was looking at buying a new car recently. I wanted a commuter car while my wife kept the utilitarian Rav 4. I wanted to buy the GM Spark, the electric version. http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle.html The irony being that a car named Spark originally isn't electric, but only in certain markets.

You should! The Spark EV is awesome.

"Available At Participating Dealers In California, Oregon And Maryland In Limited Quantities"

I don't live in any of those 3 states :(

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