Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958) • Hacker News Board

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#201

Post by armitron » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 7:50 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #198

scalio wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have found happiness when the idea "life is meaningless" seem obvious and irrelevant. Precisely. To the best of our knowledge, we're just robots. There is no meaning behind the universe, it just kinda, is . The realization that the only sense you can find in life is the one you create yourself, makes a lot of things clearer. This is also why it should be irrelevant that life is meaningless, since what do you ca…

We are back to Ecclesiastes without the tacked on Epilogue but with a touch of Blade Runner. I have two problems with this realization(not that it makes it any less true). First, anything truly goes then and we are back to "might is right". Any state/laws some subset of humanity creates is no less right than any other subset of humanity which includes various levels of psychopaths. First problem is not such a bad one…

You are deluding yourself when you think you actually have a choice. A chaotic dynamical system moving between (or sitting at) attractors doesn't leave much room for Free Will.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#202

Post by ep103 » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #198

scalio wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have found happiness when the idea "life is meaningless" seem obvious and irrelevant. Precisely. To the best of our knowledge, we're just robots. There is no meaning behind the universe, it just kinda, is . The realization that the only sense you can find in life is the one you create yourself, makes a lot of things clearer. This is also why it should be irrelevant that life is meaningless, since what do you ca…

We are back to Ecclesiastes without the tacked on Epilogue but with a touch of Blade Runner. I have two problems with this realization(not that it makes it any less true). First, anything truly goes then and we are back to "might is right". Any state/laws some subset of humanity creates is no less right than any other subset of humanity which includes various levels of psychopaths. First problem is not such a bad one…

In my thinking, this has two answers.

1) First, an old parable:

When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.

I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.

2) If I've learned one thing, its that without other people, life is largely meaningless, or at least, a very much great deal emptier. As such, I do not think it is a logical gap to say that therefore, a large component of the "meaning" of life, lies in one's interactions with other people.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#203

Post by ep103 » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

FungalRaincloud wrote: post #116

Fraterkes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a large part of the problem is that when people talk about finding "happiness" they are actually talking about "winning at life". Which is impossible of course. Every time that you do something that you think will make you happy, and you ask yourself 'is this it?' you allready know the answer, because someone who's satisfied wouldn't ask 'is this it?'. And if you spend years thinking about "finding happiness"…

In my personal experience, I agree, it's a misunderstanding of what happiness is, that causes people to miss the mark when trying to find it. Happiness isn't something you find, it's something you make. The universe is meaningless, it exists, devoid of any reason of its own, and yet, it exists. Your job, when trying to become a happy person, is to find your own meaning, and work at that, until you master it.

I've always liked that last sentence. May I suggest an edit to the second sentence? I've always though, Happiness is something you make. But happiness is something that you don't make directly. Its something that naturally arises, by making life choices, that allow happiness to occur naturally.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#204

Post by armitron » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 8:22 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #63

firstworldman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine what it's like to be on the other side of you? I don't know you, and I wouldn't presume to know anything about you other than what you've revealed in your comments, but what I can say is that you've been handed enough lego blocks to build anything you want to, and it seems like you've set them aside because they're not the specific blocks that you had in mind to build the thing that you envisioned at…

Oh, yea those close to me hate it. Everyone else seems fine cause they only see the professional side, so as far as they know, everything is just A OK Great! Not only family but I have a high stress business to run and people counting on me! Thanks for taking the time to write that out though. In reality, all you write is correct generally. This wasn't intended to be a mini-therapy session, but for what it's worth th…

You are simply piercing through what the mystics called the Veil of Isis. Introspection will help you I feel, more than consensus reality or various manufactured illusions and delusions that those close to you cling to in order to distance themselves from the void, but really seek solace in the fact that the path that you are on is well-trodden and others have been there before you.

The fundamental problem is "desire", of any sort, which stems from the Ego. Individuals who, through circumstances or deliberate means, manage to chip away at the Ego, pretty much all go through this "dark night of the soul".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

Have you read Nietzsche? His concept of the Übermensch is particularly useful I feel.

Also John C. Lilly and his concept of metaprogramming. If all that can be said to exist is the Void, then the first step to finding peace, is to give yourself fully to it. On this, the occultist Aleister Crowley used the concept of Babalon which exacts a heavy price (the blood of the adept, meaning his self-identity).

When that realization sets in and there is no fixed "I" there anymore, everything becomes easier.

One becomes what one imagines...

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#205

Post by quietkatalyst » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #63

firstworldman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine what it's like to be on the other side of you? I don't know you, and I wouldn't presume to know anything about you other than what you've revealed in your comments, but what I can say is that you've been handed enough lego blocks to build anything you want to, and it seems like you've set them aside because they're not the specific blocks that you had in mind to build the thing that you envisioned at…

Oh, yea those close to me hate it. Everyone else seems fine cause they only see the professional side, so as far as they know, everything is just A OK Great! Not only family but I have a high stress business to run and people counting on me! Thanks for taking the time to write that out though. In reality, all you write is correct generally. This wasn't intended to be a mini-therapy session, but for what it's worth th…

I'm gonna be "that guy" and ask - have you tried psychedelics? If so, what was the experience like? I have no good advice to offer since clearly everyone else has that covered, but I am genuinely curious about how you're wired.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#206

Post by nibs » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 9:05 PM UTC

gglitch wrote: post #200

AstralStorm wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This way lies hedonism.

In Aristotle's view, there was a meaningful distinction between pleasure, which led to hedonism, and happiness, which is fairly abstract and depends on virtuous conduct performed with the right mindset. Edit: if I recall correctly. This is from The Nichomachean Ethics.

What if pain, in the traditional sense, makes you happy. I get pleasure from rebelling my hedonist parents in a way reminiscent of puritans. It has nothing to do with comparison to others - I just like denying myself pleasure (abstaining from alcohol, sugar, caffeine, drugs, sometimes sex, etc.). I get a lot of meaning from it.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#207

Post by fsiefken » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #136

fsiefken wrote: post #127

Coincidentally, yesterday I attended a talk by Bernardo Kastrup on the topic of finding our purpose in life. Kastrup is a philosophical idealist, he explained an alternative to the existentialist view of creating your own story and meaning in a essentially meaningless universe outside of ourselves reasoning in part from recent insights in physics. For example: * S. Gröblacher, T. Paterek, R. Kaltenbaek, Č. Brukner, M…

> In one of his books he says the meaning of life is "about experiencing existence, in all its angles and glory, for the sheer and pure sake of experience itself! We don’t eat a nice meal, make love or travel to beautiful locations just to understand or make sense of something. We do these things because the experiences themselves imbue our lives with a kind of timeless meaning, independent of comprehension." -- Kast…

Hi Snowbat, I don't think Bernardo assumes such a simulation (a kind of solipsism?) or is this thought experiment for the sake of 'what if'? "Make love" as Bernardo says in this sense implies genuine meaningful relationship, even though both persons are dreams within 'the godhead', transcendent or ultimate reality or whatever you call this 'timeless meaning'. If so there's still both illusions of active agents (humans who love), which are meaningfully 'real' in the socalled "mind-at-large". Even if you were all alone, crashed or stranded on this planet or another, you can find unity in relationship with the environment which is 'not you'. I think you could relate to plants and animals with love, admiration, beauty and an intense purpose. Animals can return this love as well. Of course other humans would amplify the meaning significantly as I think the love between men reflects the transcendent better, perhaps mystics disagree and their union with God is above anything else. I have no clue, but I for sure would agree with you. This aspect is - for what I understood of Bernardo Kastrup's views - not undervalued and likely just as much emphasized as you and I do. But it's sure good to point it out, love gets it ultimate expression in human relations. I wonder though what theologians and/or mystics would say about this. Bernardo Kastrup argues theology can (and should if the ideas are true) be re-examined in light of the implications of his thought. I'm not sure if I make sense to you or in general? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1cHg_S3X3A

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#208

Post by scalio » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #198

scalio wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have found happiness when the idea "life is meaningless" seem obvious and irrelevant. Precisely. To the best of our knowledge, we're just robots. There is no meaning behind the universe, it just kinda, is . The realization that the only sense you can find in life is the one you create yourself, makes a lot of things clearer. This is also why it should be irrelevant that life is meaningless, since what do you ca…

We are back to Ecclesiastes without the tacked on Epilogue but with a touch of Blade Runner. I have two problems with this realization(not that it makes it any less true). First, anything truly goes then and we are back to "might is right". Any state/laws some subset of humanity creates is no less right than any other subset of humanity which includes various levels of psychopaths. First problem is not such a bad one…

To an extent, I agree with your first point. Should a big mass of people suddenly 'come into the light' and realize they can do whatever the fuck they want, that could become a problem. No need to look far, capitalism is just the latest implementation of the very old concept of 'rich men exploit poor men'. However, we shouldn't forget that we're quite elaborate little things that can through discussion agree on a common set of rules by which to interact with one's environment. So while there may not be any sense in life, just as an individual can create meaning for himself, so can a larger group of people. Obviously, this gets harder the larger the group, which is why to this day nothing has really worked out. I try to be optimistic.

Your second point comes at an interesting point in time: if general robotization works out on the scale that's being talked about right now, jobs for humans will fall off a very big cliff. Meaning, current education systems, whose sole purpose is to pump out hard-working, quick-spending bureau apes, will become utterly useless. I was lucky enough to go to a very good school, and even there, we never learned to think. We learned more algebra or languages or what-have-you than the vast majority of other schools (which I could confirm in the first week of uni), but nobody ever told us what to do with all that. It's not in the program, because all you're wanted for is keeping the system running. No need to think outside the box, here.

Frankly, I don't see how humanity can not crumble into a fucktillion little pieces if we don't give the coming generations something to do. And I think thinking is something we lack hugely, so that would be a good thing. Now, the ablity to think doesn't pop up in your head one sunny afternoon. It has to be taught, by the parents, by the schools, by society. That means fuck adverts. Fuck legalese. Fuck politicians. Fuck expensive action movies. Fuck all the things that are meant to keep you from thinking.

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#209

Post by unexistance » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 10:32 PM UTC

jomamaxx wrote: post #16

unexistance wrote: post #5

"no one HAS to do something he doesn’t want to do for the rest of his life. But then again, if that’s what you wind up doing, by all means convince yourself that you HAD to do it. You’ll have lots of company." Conformity

You mean: 'Responsibility'. See those kids you have? No, don't have a choice but to raise them to the best of your ability.

ah yes of course, the trick is to guide them until they can discover things for themselves

most of the time it's how to behave / conduct oneself in the presence of other humans, AND instill / 'indoctrinate' life-long love for knowledge

p/s: yeah, it's a LOT trickier that it sounds

Re: Hunter S. Thompson on Finding Your Purpose (1958)

#210

Post by tw04 » Mon, Aug 29, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

sireat wrote: post #198

scalio wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have found happiness when the idea "life is meaningless" seem obvious and irrelevant. Precisely. To the best of our knowledge, we're just robots. There is no meaning behind the universe, it just kinda, is . The realization that the only sense you can find in life is the one you create yourself, makes a lot of things clearer. This is also why it should be irrelevant that life is meaningless, since what do you ca…

We are back to Ecclesiastes without the tacked on Epilogue but with a touch of Blade Runner. I have two problems with this realization(not that it makes it any less true). First, anything truly goes then and we are back to "might is right". Any state/laws some subset of humanity creates is no less right than any other subset of humanity which includes various levels of psychopaths. First problem is not such a bad one…

Really? Because in my world, life is about doing what makes you happy, as long as you aren't negatively impacting others. If you want to write that great novel: do it. If you want to finish that huge programming project: do it.

It may mean sacrificing other things in life to accomplish, but if that's what makes you happy, the sacrifice shouldn't be a big deal. If making that sacrifice is too great, then it isn't what REALLY makes you happy, is it?

Now the "do whatever I want" thing works for a short period of time, but at some point you get to the end of the doing everything you want, and realize if you shit on everyone around you, you still aren't happy. And if you don't come to that realization... well... the rest of society is going to figure out how to deal with you and you probably aren't going to like that. not doing bad is just as much about self-preservation as anything else for those people who don't have a moral compass.