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Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

wsj.com

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Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#51

Post by GarrisonPrime »

bradleyjg wrote: post #40

I don't know anything about the California controversy and I certainly don't think union workers should mandated on new construction in NYC, but I was glad that tax deal died in Albany. It was a terrible program. Under it billions of dollars of tax revenue over decades which otherwise would have been owed by extremely wealthy people often on their third or fourth home was forgiven and in exchange a few hundred afford…

It would depend on how well that money was managed. If history is any guide, I suspect not well.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#52

Post by huherto »

gameofdrones wrote: post #8

This one instance might be so (unions are imperfect human endeavors), but this article comes across as thinly-veiled MSM/establishment strawman/false equivocation via the pernicious, irrational, data-free worldview which completely ignores the net positive force unions had in the bloody struggle for worker pay and working conditions in the 19th and 20th centuries. See also: "Inequality for All" and "Where to Invade N…

What is MSM ? I keep seeing it, google hasn't helped.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#53

Post by EliRivers »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #45
EliRivers wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"First, if we have a system where people are allowed to own capital and that's legitimate, doesn't inheritance just follow?" No, it doesn't necessarily follow. We could have a system based on the idea that people should benefit from their own efforts. You can own capital, well done you, and you can even choose to give your property to other people - it's yours, after all - but giving involves one person losing the be…

In this day of clever contracts, I could write one where I co-own my capital until I die. Thus constructing inheritance even if it doesn't generally exist in law. Like charitable remainder trusts etc.

You could; that would be better. Such a contract would have to surrender some control to the other co-owner; in effect, you've given something away, while you were alive. Trusts do a similar thing; the Duke of Westminster just "inherited" a large chunk of London, but he can't just do whatever he wants with it (that said, it is clearly tilted way too far in his favour).

I've no doubt some people would try to cheat the system, but that requires the taxman to look the other way; we already have situations in which people have tried to cheat by obeying the law in paperwork only, and a taxman paying attention can get them.

There already are cases in which people try to come up with clever contracts to attempt to dodge inheritance tax, and the taxman has been known to tear it up.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#54

Post by toomuchtodo »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #43
toomuchtodo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its because the public looks down upon unions that the middle class is slowly sliding into destitution? [1] [2] I'm definitely not a fan of unions, but besides the movement to push minimum wage up to $15/hr across the country, I don't see any organized groups continuing to push the salary threshold at which overtime pay is required, reducing the number of hours in a work week (which is f___ing insane we're stil…

Your own source [1] says the middle class is not slipping into destitution at all (look at the graphs, not the mood affiliation). It's slipping into the upper class. We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth.

> We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth.

Wealth inequality in the US is at its greatest levels ever since recording began six decades ago; the top 3 percent of Americans control 50 percent of the country's wealth.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#55

Post by dpark »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #51
bradleyjg wrote: post #40

I don't know anything about the California controversy and I certainly don't think union workers should mandated on new construction in NYC, but I was glad that tax deal died in Albany. It was a terrible program. Under it billions of dollars of tax revenue over decades which otherwise would have been owed by extremely wealthy people often on their third or fourth home was forgiven and in exchange a few hundred afford…

It would depend on how well that money was managed. If history is any guide, I suspect not well.

It's hard for me to imagine the government being simultaneously too incompetent to spend tax money sensibly but competent enough to direct an effective lottery based affordable housing program.

If you suppose that the government can't spend taxes wisely, then you seemingly must also suppose that any alternative affordable housing program would be run into the ground by the same incompetents.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#56

Post by allengeorge »

huherto wrote: post #52
gameofdrones wrote: post #8

This one instance might be so (unions are imperfect human endeavors), but this article comes across as thinly-veiled MSM/establishment strawman/false equivocation via the pernicious, irrational, data-free worldview which completely ignores the net positive force unions had in the bloody struggle for worker pay and working conditions in the 19th and 20th centuries. See also: "Inequality for All" and "Where to Invade N…

What is MSM ? I keep seeing it, google hasn't helped.

Main-Stream Media

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#57

Post by dpark »

EliRivers wrote: post #53
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this day of clever contracts, I could write one where I co-own my capital until I die. Thus constructing inheritance even if it doesn't generally exist in law. Like charitable remainder trusts etc.

You could; that would be better. Such a contract would have to surrender some control to the other co-owner; in effect, you've given something away, while you were alive. Trusts do a similar thing; the Duke of Westminster just "inherited" a large chunk of London, but he can't just do whatever he wants with it (that said, it is clearly tilted way too far in his favour). I've no doubt some people would try to cheat the…

> Such a contract would have to surrender some control to the other co-owner

No, it wouldn't. You could easily structure this contract such that the person on the receiving end has no control until the original owner dies.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#58

Post by bogomipz »

tunap wrote: post #46
bogomipz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as the union jobs you described, its not actually possible to outsource manual on-site performed labor to overseas. Is that really an accomplishment of unions?

Very possible to import immigrants, illegally or through visas, to labor for below market rates.

The OP's question was:

"of the advancements unions have brought to employees in the US over the last 10-20 years?"

Not what's possible. Also local trade unions are not really involved in federal immigration policy.

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#59

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
yummyfajitas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own source [1] says the middle class is not slipping into destitution at all (look at the graphs, not the mood affiliation). It's slipping into the upper class. We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth.

> We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth. Wealth inequality in the US is at its greatest levels ever since recording began six decades ago; the top 3 percent of Americans control 50 percent of the country's wealth.

[deleted]

Re: Housing Plans in California & New York face resistance from construction unions

#60

Post by yummyfajitas »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
yummyfajitas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your own source [1] says the middle class is not slipping into destitution at all (look at the graphs, not the mood affiliation). It's slipping into the upper class. We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth.

> We have become wealthier than ever before, it's just that some of us have experienced higher growth rates of wealth. Wealth inequality in the US is at its greatest levels ever since recording began six decades ago; the top 3 percent of Americans control 50 percent of the country's wealth.

You aren't disagreeing with me at all.
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