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“How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

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Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#201
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic; that albeit they started with an open federation protocol they don't federate and are essentially a proprietary service.

XMPP isn't an "open federation protocol" it's just a protocol that includes a means to federate; doing so is a matter of server preference. It would be great if more large services federated, but I'd rather have them use XMPP and not federate than build more custom protocols and not use XMPP at all so that I can't write a third party client for them. My point is that being based on XMPP is still a good thing, regardl…

> but I'd rather have them use XMPP and not federate than build more custom protocols

Well, bad news then: They never federated and they modified their implementation of XMPP to the point of third party clients not being able to connect.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#202
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charge everyone to licence it What? The protocol is publicly described. They've blogged about it. I can imagine people being able to reconstruct it from memory. The first Google result for "signal protocol license" is https://whispersystems.org/blog/license-update/ , clarifying that it's under GPLv3 (i.e., patent grant) with an exception for the App Store. Has anyone paid money to license the protocol? Has Signal a…

> Has anyone paid money to license the protocol? As Allo is not GPLv3, they obviously got it under another license.

Is Allo using the same code, or a different implementation?

(And it's not so obvious to me. The thing I linked is licensed under GPLv3 + MPL if used on the App Store. You can totally ship an Android app that runs a separate GPLv3 subprocess, and an iOS app that uses it under the terms of the MPL. The GPLv3-subprocess thing is what JuiceSSH does for running Mosh.)

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#203
post #173

This is an incredibly ugly dark pattern. The 'share information with Facebook' nugget is hidden behind a toggle at the bottom of the screen, and will be guaranteed to be missed by the 99% of users who just want to talk to their friends. Then, once you've agreed to the terms and conditions, you've got a completely arbitrary 30 days to read an online article which tells you what you've signed up for before WhatsApp is…

When you will try to actualy delete your fb account (at least when i did it some time ago). Its a minefield of dark patterns. First you need special link, because you can only deactivate from settings. Then you will have to go through pile of emotionaly draining photos of friends with claims that they will mis you and you wont be able to see what they are doing with their lives. Then few traps with agreeing about del…

I've heard that rather than deleting your FB account, it's better to turn it into a piece of obviously-fictitious performance art. Don't try to remove your data from the Internet (which is futile; you know Facebook still has it on some archive somewhere anyway). Instead, replace it with nonsense. Set your interests to your competitors so that you get notifications everytime they release a new feature, and full information about their advertising campaigns. De-friend your actual friends, and friend random celebrities. Make your political views insane. Post status updates generated by Markov-chain or recursive neural net; if you're feeling particularly bold, you could try to reverse-engineer the weights on Facebook's classifiers by generating data and seeing what sort of ads you get.

Chances are, doing this will get you kicked off Facebook and deleted pretty quickly. And if it doesn't, you've just fucked with not just Facebook, but all their advertisers. GIGO.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#204

This is an incredibly ugly dark pattern. The 'share information with Facebook' nugget is hidden behind a toggle at the bottom of the screen, and will be guaranteed to be missed by the 99% of users who just want to talk to their friends. Then, once you've agreed to the terms and conditions, you've got a completely arbitrary 30 days to read an online article which tells you what you've signed up for before WhatsApp is…

Making this an opt-in is automatically illegal in the EU anyway, which makes the fact that they rolled it out like this very surprising.

Someone has to sue them, now. And it costs a huge sum of money, like 10k+€.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And watch your friendships grow stale, lose touch with your family members, opt out of knowing about upcoming events..." And how exactly do you think these things worked before Facebook? "Friends" who don't want to make the effort to stay in touch outside of a dead-simple social app aren't friends, anyway.

"worked" is the key word here. When the letters were the common way to contact people, people would contact you by letter. If you refused to communicate in different ways than with letters, people would communicate less with you than with others, because it would be a pain in the ass. They'd organize a party on short notice, and then realize that the letter won't reach you in time (or that they don't have envelopes a…

Only more so. Back when people kept their address books in actual books, you wouldn't, for example, miss getting a wedding invitation, because you weren't sent one, because the people getting married forgot to think about anything except their Facebook contacts list when they made their invitation list. Because everyone's on Facebook.

I almost caved, the second time that happened. What stopped me was being prompted for my email account credentials, so Facebook could mine my more than decade-long correspondence for social graph data. I know enough about abusive relationships not to overlook an opening boundary test like that. So that was the end of my Facebook experiment. In any case, by that point the damage was probably done.

Someone else here said something about having his Facebook departure be a conversation starter. Doesn't always work that way. When I tell people about that email prompt, they just look at me funny and go "you know you can skip that, right?" Which, of course, I do know, but see above re: abusive relationships. Maybe I can talk my way out of taking a punch this time, but every time?

That metaphor doesn't seem to cut much ice with anyone, though. No idea why. Maybe it's a little over the top. Maybe people are just so accustomed to think about Facebook as part of the environment, and take it totally for granted, that it doesn't occur to them to regard what I'm saying as anything but incomprehensibly weird. Maybe I'm an obstreperous pain in the ass. I'm sure at least one of those is true. But who knows? I mean, I don't ask; I just steer the conversation somewhere more mutually enjoyable, because I go to bars to drink and enjoy talking with people, not to pretend to be Richard Stallman.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#206
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't use these tools if you value privacy" is not that far off from "If you have nothing to hide, why are you afraid of surveillance?" An observed life is not a free life. Many people have to use social media to communicate with family, work associates, etc... In many cases, facebook messaging has replaced methods of communication that did not rely on the content or metadata of messages for profit. All that really…

Is email not sufficient to communicate with family, work associates, etc.?

It is pretty good but they are directed messages and I think people look for something where they can check on their own terms what a person is up to.

I recently opened an account on Diaspora using the sechat.org pod. It has been a fun experience so far. The network effects mean that moving your friends over to it will be another matter. But it has been fun to use.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram uses a home-brewed crypto protocol and posted a challenge to break it by pasting some ciphertext. In my eyes they're ridiculous. Just use Signal Messager.

The author of Signal (Moxie Marlinspike) seems actively hostile to not only federation efforts but also compatibility with other clients, even one that only removed the dependency of Signal on Google Play Services: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/signal-lock-in.ht...

Why don't you just link his blog post on federation instead of misrepresenting his opinion?

https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice nobody in this thread has yet mentioned the FOSS (Apache license), cross-platform, encrypted messenger ChatSecure https://chatsecure.org/ The Guardian Project writes a bunch of nice software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian_Project_(software...

Why not use Conversations.im? https://conversations.im/ It’s actually usable, supports a lot more encryption methods, is more up to date, and actually looks okay.

> supports a lot more encryption methods

That sounds like an anti-feature.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#210
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you will try to actualy delete your fb account (at least when i did it some time ago). Its a minefield of dark patterns. First you need special link, because you can only deactivate from settings. Then you will have to go through pile of emotionaly draining photos of friends with claims that they will mis you and you wont be able to see what they are doing with their lives. Then few traps with agreeing about del…

I've heard that rather than deleting your FB account, it's better to turn it into a piece of obviously-fictitious performance art. Don't try to remove your data from the Internet (which is futile; you know Facebook still has it on some archive somewhere anyway). Instead, replace it with nonsense. Set your interests to your competitors so that you get notifications everytime they release a new feature, and full inform…

legal lulz!
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