“How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?” • Hacker News Board

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#101

Post by hointytointy » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

erlehmann_ wrote: post #80

libeclipse wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram uses a home-brewed crypto protocol and posted a challenge to break it by pasting some ciphertext. In my eyes they're ridiculous. Just use Signal Messager.

The author of Signal (Moxie Marlinspike) seems actively hostile to not only federation efforts but also compatibility with other clients, even one that only removed the dependency of Signal on Google Play Services: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/signal-lock-in.ht...

Not to mention the questionable ethics of supporting companies that are so blatantly anti-user. Facebook and Google can now tout "Moxie approved" crypto while their business models of surveillance remain intact.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#102

Post by ffggvv » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #45

So this was quite expected anyway. Though initially the acquisition seemed to be a defensive one where FB prevents Wechat kind of features coming from Whatsapp, the amount of data whatsapp has, is a treasure trove for all the advertisers and as a public company, FB just did what is expected by the shareholders. But it's kinda scary that emperor Zuck has so much power over the people, like FB/Messenger/Whatsapp/Instag…

So much power? You give him power. Just delete your facebook account and uninstall their apps!

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#103

Post by Johnny_Brahms » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #17

gyosko wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only more people used Telegram.. I love it, but only a couple of friends use it.

There was a serious FUD campaign started by one of the developers of now competing app Signal a few years ago. Now if you mention Telegram on Reddit you're immediately bombed with "OMG TELEGRAM CRYPTO IS BROKEN!" even though 0 people on earth have ever provably decrypted a Telegram message. They even offered a $300K bounty where you could act as the server... no takers.

Well... People said to them "don't roll your own crypto. Whatever you've got going now doesn't look too sane".

The Telegram devs more or less said "f*ck you, we are programming world champions and PhDs".

Then, about 6 months after they were all cocky, a russian guy showed that the telegram server could mitm every secret chat by providing the client with shitty entropy. Either it was a back door, or the telegram devs showed that everyone else was right.

Don't use it for the crypto. If that is what you want, use something else.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#104

Post by geofft » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #86

MatthiasP wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Telegram use E2E encryption by default now, yes or no?

Probably not, but the hilarious thing is that a year or so after attacking Telegram for that, the developers of Signal took a substantial chunk of cash from Google to promote Allo as using Signal Protocol and end to end encryption, even though it's disabled by default so Google can mine your chat history for ad targeting (and enabling it has the inconvenient side effect of disabling your own local chat history). Basi…

> charge everyone to licence it

What?

The protocol is publicly described. They've blogged about it. I can imagine people being able to reconstruct it from memory.

The first Google result for "signal protocol license" is https://whispersystems.org/blog/license-update/ , clarifying that it's under GPLv3 (i.e., patent grant) with an exception for the App Store. Has anyone paid money to license the protocol? Has Signal asked for money? Is it even possible to give them money for the protocol?

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#105

Post by ffggvv » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

Guys, there's only one solution. Delete your accounts and uninstall the apps. That's it!

Here's the link to delete your account. https://www.facebook.com/help/delete_account

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#106

Post by geofft » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:21 PM UTC

erlehmann_ wrote: post #80

libeclipse wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram uses a home-brewed crypto protocol and posted a challenge to break it by pasting some ciphertext. In my eyes they're ridiculous. Just use Signal Messager.

The author of Signal (Moxie Marlinspike) seems actively hostile to not only federation efforts but also compatibility with other clients, even one that only removed the dependency of Signal on Google Play Services: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/signal-lock-in.ht...

Federation and security is a hard problem. The code is there for anyone to use, but it's an entirely reasonable and prudent security decision to announce your lack of support for a forked version using the same servers.

(Also, does Telegram have a version without Google Play Services?)

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#107

Post by throwanem » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

ffggvv wrote: post #102

vthallam wrote: post #45

So this was quite expected anyway. Though initially the acquisition seemed to be a defensive one where FB prevents Wechat kind of features coming from Whatsapp, the amount of data whatsapp has, is a treasure trove for all the advertisers and as a public company, FB just did what is expected by the shareholders. But it's kinda scary that emperor Zuck has so much power over the people, like FB/Messenger/Whatsapp/Instag…

So much power? You give him power. Just delete your facebook account and uninstall their apps!

And watch your friendships grow stale, lose touch with your family members, opt out of knowing about upcoming events...

The phrase "network effect" exists for a reason. Where people don't think about keeping in touch with others in any terms other than Facebook, refusing to play along with Facebook comes with serious consequences.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#108

Post by tdkl » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:27 PM UTC

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #83

skrowl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Features / usability over perceived improvements to privacy / security. If you had actually used both, it would be clear why people use Telegram over Signal. Signal doesn't even have a desktop client for any OS!

> Signal doesn't even have a desktop client for any OS! [1] https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-desktop/

> Signal Desktop is a Chrome app

So yeah, the statement from parent still stands.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#109

Post by newscracker » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:31 PM UTC

MatthiasP wrote: post #28

skrowl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a serious FUD campaign started by one of the developers of now competing app Signal a few years ago. Now if you mention Telegram on Reddit you're immediately bombed with "OMG TELEGRAM CRYPTO IS BROKEN!" even though 0 people on earth have ever provably decrypted a Telegram message. They even offered a $300K bounty where you could act as the server... no takers.

Does Telegram use E2E encryption by default now, yes or no?

It does not use end-to-end encryption for normal chats. They're encrypted only during transport on the network, but stored as plain text on the devices and on the Telegram servers in order to make multi-device sync and searching easier. Only "Secret chats", which are restricted to one device on each side, are encrypted end-to-end.

Re: “How do I choose not to share my account information with Facebook?”

#110

Post by Jtsummers » Thu, Aug 25, 2016, 6:33 PM UTC

hueving wrote: post #40

dsacco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have skin in this game, but I want to mention that contests are not evidence of security. Furthermore, cryptographers other than those working at Signal have expressed distrust for its security.[1][2] What Telegram should do to earn the trust of the technical community (specifically, the security savvy people who criticize it for unorthodox encryption methodologies), is contract a real audit from a leading se…

>is contract a real audit from a leading security firm Suggestions like this do nothing to dispell the image that modern security firms are little more than a protection racket. If you don't pay for "an audit" from an "industry leading" firm, you'll be shunned by everyone.

You pay for an audit, or you release the code/algorithms for the community to publicly audit.

Otherwise, you're just making claims that are unbacked by anything. Presumably only the fact that there hasn't, yet, been a public exploit. But that's not a useful metric.