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Israel deploys automated military robots

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Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfair, yes. But how is it unimpressive?

> more impressed. Of course it's quite impressive! Israel's R&D efforts are nothing short of that.

Sorry. What I meant was, how is the opposing side's lack of technological innovation relevant to how impressive this is?

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#32
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what's going to happen. One side will have robots, the other will have humans. This is already happening.

That's better than both sides being humans. Seriously. Incremental improvements are worthwhile. In general, militaries never want to comprise their effectiveness. So if given the chance to implement a life-saving intervention that harms their effectiveness, they will be reluctant at best to implement it. But this is a life-saving intervention that possibly even increases their effectiveness! That's what truly makes i…

That's a best case scenario. What it could do is make military intervention an even easier decision. The loss of human life is a deterrent to engaging in war. If one side isn't concerned about that, wouldn't they be more inclined to go to war?

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#34
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it better to have robots fighting and dying than humans? War sucks, and I do wish that we could have world peace. But if war is going to happen, I'd rather it be robots that are the ones in harm's way.

That's not what's going to happen. One side will have robots, the other will have humans. This is already happening.

Already, in the case of Israel vs. Palestinian resistance, we're talking teenagers throwing rocks and people firing WW2-class rocket artillery, versus one of the most high-tech and well-funded armies (with very good, uncontested air support) in the world.

With robots involved it would most definitely be a one-sided reduction in casualties, but it already is so one-sided I'm not sure that it would meaningfully alter the numbers in that conflict. Take the 2014 Israel-Gaza war, for instance (numbers from Wikipedia):

Israel: 70 casualties, 90% military.

Gaza: around 2 500 casualties, 30-40% military (depending on source, but even Israel estimates <50%).

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#35
10 Initiate provocations in Gaza

20 Run live tests on technology

30 Use the proof of real life usage in a low boil conflict to sell the technology at international arms fairs.

40 Use realistic test conditions to refine & develop new technology for 2 years.

50 GOTO 10

This efficient QA/development cycle is a serious competitive advantage, since it's hard for other countries to replicate the same controlled conflict conditions. Hence these great sales figures: https://rwer.wordpress.com/2016/01/12/the-15-largest-arms-ex...

And it's been ~2 years since the last conflict, so...: http://europe.newsweek.com/us-calls-americans-leave-gaza-soo...

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#36
post #24
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what's going to happen. One side will have robots, the other will have humans. This is already happening.

That's better than both sides being humans. Seriously. Incremental improvements are worthwhile. In general, militaries never want to comprise their effectiveness. So if given the chance to implement a life-saving intervention that harms their effectiveness, they will be reluctant at best to implement it. But this is a life-saving intervention that possibly even increases their effectiveness! That's what truly makes i…

Yeah, just let a Hitler like guy (or Trump), have control over a massive robot army.

We always assume, that the technology always stays with the good guys.

This stuff is literally a dictators wet dream.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#37
post #21

I would be more impressed if their opponent were more technically sophisticated. You have people pretending to build a tank on one hand and people with automated robots on the other? Seems a bit overkill and pointless IMHO.

"Overkill" is the defining feature of Western military. We've got to the point where we consider a ratio of 1 (of ours) : 1000 (of theirs) unacceptable. It's very hard to present an argument that says we should accept more deaths on our own side in order to be "fairer" to the other side. However, the net effect is that we continue to minimize our risk in ways that de-humanize conflict and increase collateral damage.

I'm not sure we are really increasing collateral damage, relative to where we started 100 years ago. The days of firing 1-3 million heavy artillery shells in a day[1] are past, as are the days of dropping tens of thousands of tons of bombs indiscriminantly on a city[2]. Blowing up a single house with a drone-launched missile, or taking out a bridge with a single laser-guided bomb is far more surgical. One can imagine in the not-too-distant future bug-sized drones that could pick a target out of a crowd and inject a trace amount of some very deadly toxin or sedative.

[1] http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-wester...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_Wa...

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#38
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't we just get a kind of programmer's Hippocratic oath going here? Let's just all not facilitate autonomous shooting. I know both sides of the argument. I know it won't prevent it being done. I just mean if enough people agreed not to do it, then we'd at least generate enough disapproval for it not to be the subject of any PR Puff.

Weapons that autonomously decide when to explode have existed since WW2 with radar proximity fuses and modern guided weapons can select targets (e.g. "fire and forget" Brimstone missiles). Where do we draw the dividing line?

Well in that case the weapons autonomously decided how to inflict maximum damage on the target. Which generally nobody has a problem with.

There was still a human that chose the target, and a human that chose to fire on the target.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfair, yes. But how is it unimpressive?

> more impressed. Of course it's quite impressive! Israel's R&D efforts are nothing short of that.

What's so impressive, technically, about a four wheel drive moving to a series of waypoints and shooting anything that moves and doesn't squawk friendly?

I'm surprised this hasnt been done sooner. Waypoint navigation is a consumer product, and we've had military grade target tracking for ages.

Re: Israel deploys automated military robots

#40
I wonder what the cost differential between The Trump Wall, and autonomous vehicle patrols would be.

Electric vehicles with solar charging would be very cost-effective as a border security mechanism.

Where are all the border security startups? Lots of government cash on the table I would think.

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