Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis • Hacker News Board

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#531

Post by rev_bird » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 1:26 AM UTC

acidburnNSA wrote: post #14

rev_bird wrote: post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

This is probably going to get buried now, but in case you come back to this thread, thanks for pointing me toward "Listen, Liberal." Checking it out now -- I read Thomas Frank in The Nation every week, but I didn't know about this one.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#532

Post by rev_bird » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #425

rev_bird wrote: post #2

This is a pretty surreal move: >The law says the money will help taxi businesses to adopt "new technologies and advanced service, safety and operational capabilities" and to support workforce development... [Larry Meister, manager of the Boston area's Independent Taxi Operator's Association] said the money could go toward improving a smartphone app his association has started using, or to other big needs. I'm not an…

It's not so simple. Taxis were granted a monopoly in order to serve as an extension of cities' public transit. In return, they lost the autonomy of a normal business. They can't set their own rates. The government sets rates. They aren't allowed to use surge pricing to match supply and demand. Indeed, in many cases they're not allowed to use a GPS-based method to compute the fare, which increases the difficulty of im…

I wasn't expecting to start understanding the other side on this one, I have to admit. But this is a compelling argument -- that maintaining the taxi companies is like trying to maintain city buses, except companies built the infrastructure.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#533

Post by maverick_iceman » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 4:45 AM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #123

maverick_iceman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One Bus Away was developed by University of Washington students, not government bureaucrats.

Yeah, it's a shame there aren't any technically inclined universities in Massachusetts that the government bureaucrats could turn to. Would make it a lot easier.

The government bureaucrats will probably end up taxing those technically inclined universities to support the teaching of intelligent design.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#534

Post by dang » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 5:04 AM UTC

mikerichards wrote: post #72

acidburnNSA wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

Yep, only in the sick mind of a leftist is innovation bad...thus the "worshipping innovation" You need to start doing some more "new thinking" for yourself.

Since you've persisted in using this site for ideological rants and attacks despite many requests to stop, we've banned this account.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We're not interested in banning people for political reasons, but there are rules that everybody has to follow, and you're repeatedly breaking them.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#535

Post by dang » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 5:11 AM UTC

madgar wrote: post #165

Come on, you must know that nobody on HN gives a shit about anyone who didn't go to college. Here, the uneducated are meant to be tools of those who are educated and should be happy to be tools.

That's far from true, and please don't diss the community as a rhetorical device. Doing so is a cheap shot and a reliable marker of a low-quality comment.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12329348 and marked it off-topic.

p.s. I noticed you also did that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12329714. Please make your points by expressing them directly. HN is a lot of different people; nearly all the generalizations are false, and since you're commenting here you're as much a part of the community as anyone else is. That's a good thing.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#536

Post by sebastianconcpt » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 2:30 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #394

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. The only part I think you are missing is the part in which one stops being accepting on regulation because always ends in some form of distortion to what's best. Taxi drivers need to become one of the providers of these new services and things wil go well

There aren't enough of them. And regulation limits the number, solely so they can profit more. No way is the taxi industry going to 'go well' with a little more automation. Well, not for the public anyway.

Reading your commend made me thing that state regulations is like parents not letting kids solve its own problems.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#537

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #496

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I don't get it either. taxi |ˈtaksi| noun ( pl. taxis ) a motor vehicle licensed to transport passengers in return for payment of a fare and typically fitted with a taximeter. Uber is a taxi service. Uber _is_ licensed in the sense that they are allowed to operate. Saying Uber isn't a taxi service is a load of dingos kidneys, in my arrogant opinion.

Regulations typically distinguish taxis, which can pick up street hails, from car/bus/limo services, which are pre-arranged or pre-scheduled. Bus and limo drivers also "drive people for money" (and even for buses, sometimes charge by distance), but aren't subject to taxi regs. And that's not an arbitrary distinction: much of the danger and public interest in cans arises from grabbing randos off the street. As car/lim…

Ah, yes indeed, very good point, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#538

Post by speby » Tue, Aug 23, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

ucarion wrote: post #206

BurningFrog wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taxis are a dying industry, but taxi drivers are not adapting. How do you know? My impression is that most taxi drivers are very busy adapting. But I don't know either. Let's be clear: The people hardest hit by Uber/Lyft is taxi company owners . > Clearly, asking them to adapt overnight would be too demanding Uber has been around for half a decade. How many decades does it take?

> How do you know? My impression is that most taxi drivers are very busy adapting. But I don't know either. To be clear: I don't know either. I'm an outsider to this industry. I'm just offering arguments. > Let's be clear: The people hardest hit by Uber/Lyft is taxi company owners. I don't think this is true. They're losing the most money, but they have lots of money. Taxi drivers risk losing all their revenue, which…

Half a decade is not enough? How long did it take taxi drivers to learn to be taxi drivers in the first place? Surely not 5 years. Moving into another career/job/position will certainly take time to transition, learn, and train, but 5+ years is a long time. I know many people who are in wildly different jobs, different fields in much less time than that.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#539

Post by techlover14159 » Wed, Aug 24, 2016, 9:43 PM UTC

Trundle wrote: post #402

new299 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally you pay for some kind of permit to be a taxi driver. A quick google suggests in excess of 150KUSD: https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2015/08/05/what-about-taxi... So they potentially have a lot to lose...

Generally you rent a permit/work for a company that owns them as a taxi driver. If there are taxi drivers buying medallions then they're 1) a small minority and 2)effectively business owners that are making a capital investment. Part of why one gets a return on investments is that they're assuming risk.

It is definitely unfair that a completely new class of competition is allowed which doesn't have to pay this 150k "medallion" fee. Instead of this 20c fee it would be fair to either reimburse the 150k fee to existing owners of taxis or have uber/lyft pay the same fee. Competition should be fair.

Oh and all the regulation should be the same for taxi vs ridesharing like insurance requirements (commercial insurance is much higher which taxis are required to carry) and inspection requirements etc.