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Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

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Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#121
post #92
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your comment as a contribution to discussion, but I'd like to see a dialectic about why income inequality increasing is bad, in of itself. I see this implied quite a bit on Hacker News. Usually something along the lines of, "But doing this will increase income inequality" stated as a counterpoint. If overall quality of life increases, I am personally unconcerned with income inequality. I haven't seen definitiv…

>I'd like to see a dialectic about why income inequality increasing is bad, in of itself. One main issue is that income inequality decreases socioeconomic mobility by inflating the cost of scarce goods that improve earnings capabilities. So 4K TVs are cheaper but college tuition becomes unaffordable, because good universities and grad programs are valuable, scarce goods that the wealthy can outbid everyone else on. P…

>One main issue is that income inequality decreases socioeconomic mobility by inflating the cost of scarce goods that improve earnings capabilities. So 4K TVs are cheaper but college tuition becomes unaffordable, because good universities and grad programs are valuable, scarce goods that the wealthy can outbid everyone else on.

Tuition rates didn't go through the roof until the government started guaranteeing/sponsoring tuition loans. When that happened, the colleges and banks knew they could charge whatever they wanted and still get paid, so tuition cost became detached from ability-to-pay, and there was no incentive to keep prices affordable anymore.

The victim in this is the student, who gets saddled with decades of debt, or alternately, an eviscerated credit profile with an albatross that can't be discharged even in bankruptcy. That, however, is obviously not something that disturbs the educational system.

Things go screwy fast when you decouple the classic economic checks and balances. While a small number of wealthy people would be both willing and able to afford outrageous rates for tuition, most of them would want a good value, and there's not enough fantastically-rich Americans to support something the size of the education system without drawing from the middle class for pupils.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#122
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by the big mac index, the cost of living in India is 50% less (at a minimum) than in the US. Direct price comparisons between countries are useless

You pay the premium to live somewhere where nobody's defecated in your drinking water.

The kind of living in India that he is comparing with, nobody defecates in your drinking water either. You are talking about the bottom end of the spectrum where the cost of living is 20-50x cheaper than that of the US.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can provide an example. I live in Seattle, and use "One Bus Away" everyday. It provides a map showing of all the public bus stops, and real time estimates for bus arrivals at each stop.

One Bus Away was developed by University of Washington students, not government bureaucrats.

Yeah, it's a shame there aren't any technically inclined universities in Massachusetts that the government bureaucrats could turn to. Would make it a lot easier.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#124
Couldn't a "medallion cab" franchise that licenses tools (technology) to existing city cab drivers be created? So cabbies in Massachusetts can spend the tax money on their own uber via a franchise.

The franchise can be repeated all over for the "old industry" - In every big city.

So a user could choose their "Dominoes" app and they would be getting a legacy cab, not uber-lyft. And the customer would support existing men and women whose jobs are threatened. And like dominoes pizza, behind the scenes is a local owner (or local group of cabbies) that has to follow their own rules.

A cabbie could be hailed with 4 fingers and a thumb up or via two thumb touch. Have cake and eat it too.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#125
post #9

I think that this makes sense in concept if not in implementation. Taxi medallions were sold and traded under a certain set of laws which defined their value. The government decided to change those laws, so "buying out" the medallions at some fair price, paid for by the beneficiaries of the change in law, makes sense.

The medallion owners were making an investment. Every investment carries a risk. If they were profiting from their investments then they were not going to share those with anyone else. Why then should others share their losses?

Imagine you want to open a restaurant. You know that it will be successful - you've done your research, whatever, yadda yadda. The government charges you a hefty initial tax to open your restaurant - it's a steep cost, but you expect that you'll be able to pay it off, because you know your place is going to do well. Seriously, you've paid attention to history - these kinds of things - the way you're doing it, anyway - always do well. Time passes, and your restaurant does do really well. You get a few negative reviews, though - some people think the place smells funny, some customers don't like hearing you (the head chef) screaming at the cooks in the kitchen. A couple years later, a competitor restaurant opens across the street. Similar price level, cuisine, prestige - all that. The only thing is, the government doesn't level the same tax against the competitor that you had to pay. In fact, that tax isn't being applied to them at all, because, even though you know and everyone else knows they're really basically a restaurant - despite that, because all the customers there order the food through an app, the place is legally classified as something else. The competitor's head chef and owner has paid attention to what you did poorly - he makes sure his place smells good (he spends a lot of money on this), and he's careful to keep his speaking voice down while chastising his chefs. He starts to get good business, and as word spreads, you start to lose business. Things aren't looking good for you. You're not really sure you're going to be able to stay open for long enough for that heavy tax you paid to be worth it.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#126
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but this doesn't really address the question, which is about what happens to an industry when it's made redundant by technology. Cab drivers competing with self-driving cars can't "suck it up". "what if they don't want to" in regard to people working? Again, I feel you haven't read the spirit of this comment accurately. What ha…

What happened to the drivers of horse-drawn carriages when automobiles arrived?

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#127
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but this doesn't really address the question, which is about what happens to an industry when it's made redundant by technology. Cab drivers competing with self-driving cars can't "suck it up". "what if they don't want to" in regard to people working? Again, I feel you haven't read the spirit of this comment accurately. What ha…

Again, I feel you haven't read the spirit of this comment accurately.

The comment specifically talked about those people not wanting to do another form of work. It wasn't a generic "lets talk about mass automation induced redundancy" which appears to be what you're trying to discuss with me.

As you'll note, I'm pro basic income. I just don't think it's fair to say I'm not properly addressing the spirit, when in this case that means ignoring the specific language the commenter chose to use and just having the same generic conversation that's continuously being had all over the internet. I'm interested in debating this guy if he does actually think work is something people only do if it's intrinsically motivating and thus we should consider taxi drivers desire to spend their day driving around rather than doing math, I'm not interested in just having a standard /r/futurology back and forth.

I mean hell, I even hedged against this with my last paragraph.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#128
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of them don't want to go back to school or get technical training... What do we tell the taxi and truck drivers when Uber shows up with self-drivers, etc.? Uhhh, how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I know plenty of people on hn are all about the "making the world a better place" shtick and would work anyway/for the sake of it but for the vast majority of people work straight up means doing things you otherw…

how about "suck it up and do it anyway"? I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but this doesn't really address the question, which is about what happens to an industry when it's made redundant by technology. Cab drivers competing with self-driving cars can't "suck it up". "what if they don't want to" in regard to people working? Again, I feel you haven't read the spirit of this comment accurately. What ha…

I'm pretty sure the answer is to retrain and/or go into a different profession.

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, and I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you 2 weeks ago, but I just read a book ("Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank) that makes some interesting points about how liberals have shifted from representing working people to representing professionals, and to worshiping innovation. While free trade and disruptive technology is good for the professional class, it inherently increases inequality.…

> it inherently increases inequality. As does every successful start-up. But please note it only increases inequality because a handful of people get comparatively more rich in the process, the rest gets salary and everybody gets better (more efficient) services. The latter point means also reducing inequality because other people can now afford these services who couldn't do so before. > but I think someone needs to…

> By this logic the industrial revolution shouldn't have happened (or at least it should have happened more slowly).

I was just going to mention the same thing. There was a good Freakonomics podcast episode* about this very subject.

Audio: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/how-safe-is-your-job-a-new-f...

Transcript: http://freakonomics.com/2015/01/29/how-safe-is-your-job-full...

Re: Massachusetts to tax ride-hailing apps, give the money to taxis

#130
post #98
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your comment as a contribution to discussion, but I'd like to see a dialectic about why income inequality increasing is bad, in of itself. I see this implied quite a bit on Hacker News. Usually something along the lines of, "But doing this will increase income inequality" stated as a counterpoint. If overall quality of life increases, I am personally unconcerned with income inequality. I haven't seen definitiv…

With rising income inequality the difference between the average Joe and the 1% Joe is growing larger and larger. This seems increasingly unfair to more and more people. Eventually all those disillusioned poor people will act on this by bringing to power some radicals who will bulldoze the current system much like the Bolsheviks bulldozed the Russian empire. If you need evidence that income inequality is itself a bad…

Haven't we heard this same spiel for the last 150 years? The revolution is always one week away and this is a time-invariant statement.
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