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Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

nytimes.com

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Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#31

Post by s_q_b »

nickbauman wrote: post #23
s_q_b wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're the ones who mortgaged our future and blew up the global economy for short term gain. They're also the ones writing these articles.

Painting with much too broad a brush. I did no such thing.

All discussions of entire generations paint with too broad a brush. We're having a discussion in aggregate, not targeted at you personally.

Edit in reply:

The entire article is about painting millennials with a broad brush, written by a member of Generation X. Now you complain you're being stereotyped?

Give me a break.

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#32

Post by protomyth »

siculars wrote: post #9
codemac wrote: post #2

These feelings are not unique to our generation -- they are part of becoming aware enough of everything around you. I would agree though that most of my friends don't believe they're building a future for themselves. Several friends in their mid-thirties don't have retirement accounts because they strongly believe it supports an unethical economy. The idea that the nation seemed more "stable" in the 70's is an insane…

Stable in the 70s? I keep hearing this but I don't buy it. Rolling off of Vietnam. The oil crisis. Inflation. Decimation of manufacturing. I wasn't around then but we're they actually good?

plus a pretty high crime rate in the early 70's with talk of "super predators"

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#33

Post by [deleted] »

siculars wrote: post #9
codemac wrote: post #2

These feelings are not unique to our generation -- they are part of becoming aware enough of everything around you. I would agree though that most of my friends don't believe they're building a future for themselves. Several friends in their mid-thirties don't have retirement accounts because they strongly believe it supports an unethical economy. The idea that the nation seemed more "stable" in the 70's is an insane…

Stable in the 70s? I keep hearing this but I don't buy it. Rolling off of Vietnam. The oil crisis. Inflation. Decimation of manufacturing. I wasn't around then but we're they actually good?

[deleted]

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#34

Post by seiferteric »

The article mentions climate change, but I don't think puts enough importance. Really the other stuff does not bother me too much because it has all happened before and we have solutions. Meanwhile climate change marches on and we barely talk about it (relative to how important it is). To me it feels so important that I often find it hard to find meaning and enjoyment in my job because I know it is not going to help the climate change situation in any way, and there are few jobs out there that will. All the other issues and "problems" tech companies try to solve seem like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#35

Post by pnathan »

s_q_b wrote: post #30
grok2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the article kept mentioning the 90K salary number -- not sure why the article presented such great prospects and had a doom-and-gloom outlook for the people. To me it looked like the people profiled in the article seemed to have varied, fulfilling lives....maybe I am not getting something.

Yeah, I got that too. How is a $90,000 starting salary for a javascript bootcamp grad a sign of the end of days? It seems to me the problem is occurring as the "millennials" want to settle down in mid-life, buy a house, buy a car, have kids, and save for their college. In short, the middle class baby boomer lifestyle seems completely out of reach for most in their twenties and thirties.

> In short, the middle class baby boomer lifestyle seems completely out of reach for most in their twenties and thirties.

Seattle houses (condos on the market are usually pretty fancy and on par with house prices) are roughly 450K on the low end; neighboring cities hew to that, with the usual SES modifiers.

So if you're making, say, 100K/yr salary, your conservative financial buy of a house is about 300K. Welp. There you go. No house for you.

The trick here is that it's leaving out the key aspect: 90K for a bootcamp grad is great pay. It's excellent if you're 22 years old, and want to save for a house over 10 years. In a decade your salary will probably be between 140 and 200, not counting inflation. This is great.

If, however, you've farted around following your dreams or just want a new career, you're 32, maybe you have a kid or want one, you are looking at a different time run way for saving, different personal needs, maybe you have health issues, maybe you have a family, maybe they have health issues.

I would argue that the key issue here is the stupid high cost of housing that has been produced by stupid anti-development laws.

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#36

Post by yarrel »

s_q_b wrote: post #31
nickbauman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Painting with much too broad a brush. I did no such thing.

All discussions of entire generations paint with too broad a brush. We're having a discussion in aggregate, not targeted at you personally. Edit in reply: The entire article is about painting millennials with a broad brush, written by a member of Generation X. Now you complain you're being stereotyped? Give me a break.

You're the ones performing this erasure and making this generalisation.

I don't mean you personally, I mean you.

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#38

Post by tanderson92 »

pnathan wrote: post #18
nickbauman wrote: post #8

A "broken political system", please. Like Syria? Most of the Arab Spring? Even Brexit? There are people literally laying down their lives to get an opportunity to participate in such a "broken" system as ours in the US. If you don't like the system, work to change it. In the US at least you won't go to jail for doing that. Good grief!

As near as I can tell, the complaints of 'broken' come from people who don't participate. People who participate somehow seem to find ways to get some change in their desired direction.

As near as I can tell, people who make generalizations end up making absurd statements about some person or belief that doesn't fit their narrow view.

Does Malala Yousafzai think her country's political system is broken? What would this mean for your characterization?

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#39

Post by ghaff »

jseliger wrote: post #24

Having spent a lot of time in Seattle I'm skeptical of the article; that being said, to my mind the big issue is housing costs, as I describe in "Do millennials have a future in Seattle? Do millennials have a future in any superstar cities?" ( http://jakeseliger.com/2015/09/24/do-millennials-have-a-futu... ). If you lower costs enough, a lot of other things become possible, and a lot of issues become less important (…

Housing is certainly a part of it based on people I speak with. A certain demographic--which is mostly an educated subset of 20-35 year olds who tend to write articles/posts and/or know those who do--have decided that they absolutely must live in a reasonable neighborhood of one of a handful of urban locations.

As a result, a relative handful of cities have become what many parts of Manhattan, for example, have been for a long time. Essentially luxury goods.

Building regimes is also part of it but housing stock, and associated infrastructure, tends to increase over longer timeframes than the current urban living fad took to develop.

Re: Debt. Terror. Politics. To Seattle Millennials, the Future Looks Scary

#40

Post by niftich »

Though the article is an enjoyable read, it makes the same basic points as many of the "about millennials" articles of the last five years: 20-to-30-somethings are flocking to places of economic opportunity like Seattle, but are worried about cost-of-living, debt/loans, lack of government safety nets, crime (and a segue into worries about terror), uhh.... genetically modified crops.... uhhh... the list goes on. Isn't this consistent with 'coming of age' and trying to make it on your own?

The point is, I'm a millennial, I guess (I'm younger than the 31-year-old the article focuses on, and I have no idea anymore what the term 'millennial' actually means besides 'young person'), and these are anxieties that I share. But they don't prevent me from living a normal, relatively uneventful life in the US.

Part of growing up is realizing that even when you work hard, success can be elusive, that in the US the government generally does not have your back, and your well-being is entirely a function of your effort, luck, and circumstances. Not to discount their importance, but the issues of the day will vary: equal rights regardless of color in the 1960s, equal rights regardless of sexual identity in the 2010s; proxy wars in the 1970s, terrorism since ... (I lied, terrorism has always been around).

The future is uncertain, and we're constantly trying to juggle our resources among our hierarchy of needs of our own immediate needs vs. the good of the community, of people like us, of people different from us, of our national security and 'way of life', of our planet; but the only thing new is that we 'millennials' are new to it.

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