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New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

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Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#31

Post by NickNameNick »

wizzard0 wrote: post #9
Retr0spectrum wrote: post #3

It seems like we're always hearing about the next big thing in battery technology, but they seem to stay in research forever, and never hit the consumer market. The most exciting part of this, is that they say the'll be in consumer devices early 2017. I'd love to have one in my quadcopter!

Note that having a compressed energy ready for rapid release is exactly equal to handling an explosive in your laptop :) There are a lot of experimental batteries that have like 5x capacity of the current Li-ion ones, but melt and explode when heated or crushed, which makes them effectively useless. This is one of the hardest problems in high-capacity batteries - to avoid "rapid unscheduled heat dissipation" and the…

Also known as 'Engine rich exhaust'

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#32

Post by yread »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #27
fuzzy2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but melt and explode when heated or crushed But that’s exactly what Li-ion batteries already do. x)

What you really want to avoid is destroying non-rechargeable lithium manganese batteries, like a CR123. There are some true horror stories out there, like this one: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?120888-RO... TL;DR: guy used stock flashlight with two stock CR123 batteries in series. One discharged faster than the other, so it got reverse charged from the one holding more charge, and promptly vente…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_UuPmLO1c

With nasty cough as a bonus

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#33

Post by mtgx »

I remember SolidEnergy. We discussed it here on HN before. It was one of the, if not the most promising companies to have made "battery breakthroughs", a few years ago. And they also seem to be launching right on time (I believe they promised a 2016-2017 release date a few years ago).

What's strange though is that Tesla always brags about how it has a list with "hundreds" of such battery breakthroughs, and that they know everyone in the industry working on new tech, but none was anywhere close to coming to market, which is why they chose to go with normal Li-Ion batteries for Gigafactory.

And now we have this announcement? Was SolidEnergy that secretive with their battery tech evolution or why would Musk keep saying that then? I would imagine SolidEnergy would kill for a deal with Tesla. So I wonder what else is going on. Perhaps the battery is 2x as dense, but 4x as expensive, making it not useful for Tesla cars anytime soon?

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#34

Post by mtgx »

SethMurphy wrote: post #28

If we can double battery life, hardware makers will double power usage. Phones are designed to last about a day on a full charge, and incremental battery improvement won't change that.

Good thing we have VR phones and 4k displays right around the corner to "take advantage" of this increase in battery capacity! Oh, and all the Pokemon Go-like games.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#35

Post by Kenji »

matthewmorgan wrote: post #6

Is it the case that the research was publicly-funded, but the profits are now being privatized?

The public funds things that result in private profits all the time. I.e. education, roads, etc. It's not really outrageous. It's the state's duty to provide a platform for its people to excel.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#37

Post by Kenji »

wizzard0 wrote: post #9
Retr0spectrum wrote: post #3

It seems like we're always hearing about the next big thing in battery technology, but they seem to stay in research forever, and never hit the consumer market. The most exciting part of this, is that they say the'll be in consumer devices early 2017. I'd love to have one in my quadcopter!

Note that having a compressed energy ready for rapid release is exactly equal to handling an explosive in your laptop :) There are a lot of experimental batteries that have like 5x capacity of the current Li-ion ones, but melt and explode when heated or crushed, which makes them effectively useless. This is one of the hardest problems in high-capacity batteries - to avoid "rapid unscheduled heat dissipation" and the…

Yeah, with the batteries becoming so powerful, I sometimes feel uneasy about having the equivalent of a hand grenade on my lap and the equivalent of a potent firework right by my ear as I make phone calls.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#38

Post by ptaipale »

Retr0spectrum wrote: post #16
bitJericho wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress in batteries has come a long way in the last 20 years. It's one of the reasons your quadcopter is even possible.

Undoubtedly, but my impression is that it's been more of a gradual refinement of the same technology, rather than a sudden 2x improvement as claimed here.

Well, there have been clear technological jumps. I remember the time when the mainstream technology for electronic gadgets was NiCd. Then came NiMH -> Li-ion -> Li-Po. The differences are quite significant.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#39

Post by xbmcuser »

mtgx wrote: post #33

I remember SolidEnergy. We discussed it here on HN before. It was one of the, if not the most promising companies to have made "battery breakthroughs", a few years ago. And they also seem to be launching right on time (I believe they promised a 2016-2017 release date a few years ago). What's strange though is that Tesla always brags about how it has a list with "hundreds" of such battery breakthroughs, and that they…

This tech will take at least a few years to reach the point where they can start supplying enough batteries that Tesla would need for its cars.

Re: New batteries could make phones, drones, and electric cars last twice as long

#40

Post by imtringued »

kristofferR wrote: post #20
cheriot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of anywhere that charts improvements in commercially available batteries? I have a similar impression to OP, but only based on anecdotes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/29mxnz/the_pro... "2010 (early) Max. capacity 2600mAh (This has existed before) 2011 (early) Max. capacity 2900mAh/3000mAh 2012 (early) Max. capacity 3100mAh 2012 (mid) Max. capacity 3400mAh 2013 (late) Max. capacity 3600mAh (Are not yet common)" . 3600mAh is apparently still the max capacity available.

Battery capacity doubles every nine years.

I'm not narcissistic enough to give this "law" a name.

The opposite is also probably true. A battery technology that promises to double today's capacity is at least 9 years away from being commercially available.

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