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Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

techcrunch.com

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Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#41

Post by Kephael »

ctvo wrote: post #27
syk26 wrote: post #2

I think this is a step in the right direction to address the issue of computer science education and/or coding classes only being accessible to kids from privileged backgrounds. Ultimately, if this is successful (and I know I'm wishing too much at this point), it can lead to greater diversity in the tech workforce or even in academia.

I'd forgotten computer science was only taught in Ivy League schools and top 15 universities. They definitely can't take this same money (Pell Grant / federal student loans) and apply it to a local community college / public state university and get a CS education there.

I'd forgotten computer science was only taught in Ivy League schools and top 15 universities.

I think at quite a few companies this is certainly the case.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#42

Post by flukus »

syk26 wrote: post #2

I think this is a step in the right direction to address the issue of computer science education and/or coding classes only being accessible to kids from privileged backgrounds. Ultimately, if this is successful (and I know I'm wishing too much at this point), it can lead to greater diversity in the tech workforce or even in academia.

Privileged backgrounds? Anyone with a cheap internet connection and a cheap computer (~$100) has everything they need to start learning.

Can you name a single industry that is more accessible?

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#43

Post by brogrammernot »

whytaka wrote: post #38
brogrammernot wrote: post #31

This is not a good idea. I've been part of the hiring committees at a handful of companies and there is a big difference between coding schools and real degrees. That being said, I've yet to interview a candidate who attending a coding school who truly understands software development at any acceptable level to be hired. Maybe for basic web design and very limited front end work these people will find jobs but I fear…

I've recently taught myself programming and am now working as an apprentice at a local web firm. Can you point to some specific concepts you think I might have missed?

So, there is a difference between a boot camper and someone who is self taught. I started out as self-taught, and have since then taken courses/advanced studies to further my own knowledge.

The path you're on is very similar to the one I took. Been an apprentice or Jr developer is a smart, smart path to take.

Concepts that I've seen missed in recent code interviews: - I know "Node", but what is the V8 engine? I've seen this a lot as Node has gotten more and more popular. It's critical, at least in my opinion, to understand at the bare minimum how Node works under the hood. Writing a few web apps with a basic set of Node APIs is great, but do you actually understand what is going on? - AngularJS. Have you looked at the source code? Do you understand how directives work? Can you explain how the digest loop works? Can you explain the use cases for two-way binding? Why wouldn't you need two-way binding? - VanillaJS - Can you write out some basic ways to manipulate the DOM without the use of jQuery or another framework? Do you understand how event listeners and event propagation works?

Those are just some of things that come to my mind right away.

There's also a point to be made that it is easier to trust that someone who spent 4 years in coursework is committed to the career versus someone who took 3-5 months doing a boot camp.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#44

Post by [deleted] »

brogrammernot wrote: post #31

This is not a good idea. I've been part of the hiring committees at a handful of companies and there is a big difference between coding schools and real degrees. That being said, I've yet to interview a candidate who attending a coding school who truly understands software development at any acceptable level to be hired. Maybe for basic web design and very limited front end work these people will find jobs but I fear…

[deleted]

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#45

Post by dpritchett »

brogrammernot wrote: post #31

This is not a good idea. I've been part of the hiring committees at a handful of companies and there is a big difference between coding schools and real degrees. That being said, I've yet to interview a candidate who attending a coding school who truly understands software development at any acceptable level to be hired. Maybe for basic web design and very limited front end work these people will find jobs but I fear…

I've worked with one who became an exceptional backend coder straight out of the code school. This is out of maybe six total and she had some excellent mentorship at the first job. Another had great frontend skills within a few months.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#46

Post by NTDF9 »

syk26 wrote: post #2

I think this is a step in the right direction to address the issue of computer science education and/or coding classes only being accessible to kids from privileged backgrounds. Ultimately, if this is successful (and I know I'm wishing too much at this point), it can lead to greater diversity in the tech workforce or even in academia.

This is nonsense. We need diversity of opinions, thoughts and processes...not skin color, sex or wealth.

Sure we want equal opportunity to all. But that doesn't mean equal outcome. The outcome should only be based on merit.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#47

Post by whytaka »

brogrammernot wrote: post #43
whytaka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently taught myself programming and am now working as an apprentice at a local web firm. Can you point to some specific concepts you think I might have missed?

So, there is a difference between a boot camper and someone who is self taught. I started out as self-taught, and have since then taken courses/advanced studies to further my own knowledge. The path you're on is very similar to the one I took. Been an apprentice or Jr developer is a smart, smart path to take. Concepts that I've seen missed in recent code interviews: - I know "Node", but what is the V8 engine? I've se…

Thanks very much for your suggestions! I think learning about event listeners/propagation is particularly relevant.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#48

Post by angersock »

bertiewhykovich wrote: post #11
angersock wrote: post #3

Oh great more developer puppy mills, except this time secured by the federal government! What a great handout.

Worried about your job, angersock?

Quite the opposite.

Consider the folks who are signing up for this--people who by definition either don't have the background required to do this industry work or who are returning to retrain.

In either case, they are probably not going to be making top wages starting out, and with the federal aid assistance the prices for bootcamps across the board will go up. So, they'll have a larger amount of debt to pay back if they get a job--at the exact same time the competition for the types of jobs they are trained for increases dramatically.

It's a setup, and I hope a bunch of people don't get burned.

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#49

Post by zappo2938 »

brogrammernot wrote: post #43
whytaka wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've recently taught myself programming and am now working as an apprentice at a local web firm. Can you point to some specific concepts you think I might have missed?

So, there is a difference between a boot camper and someone who is self taught. I started out as self-taught, and have since then taken courses/advanced studies to further my own knowledge. The path you're on is very similar to the one I took. Been an apprentice or Jr developer is a smart, smart path to take. Concepts that I've seen missed in recent code interviews: - I know "Node", but what is the V8 engine? I've se…

You might like What Do I Need to Know to Ace a JavaScript Interview?[1] I have been learning JavaScript on my own for about 1 year now. I put together that list of links as I reviewed for a coding job. I had bookmarked a lot of things I thought were important or I kept returning to. They didn't offer me a job coding JavaScript. At the end of 2 hour interview they said they would hire me if I took a month or two to learn Go. (If you are in South Florida, Delivery Dudes is hiring Go coders BTW) I love JavaScript and several months later I'm still not getting paid. I regret not taking that job now, but I want to finish what I started.

I can't imagine being useful to anyone with a 3-5 months boot camp.

[1] https://github.com/adam-s/js-interview-review

Re: Low-income students can soon get federal aid to attend coding schools

#50

Post by back_beyond »

back_beyond wrote: post #21

As "coding" becomes increasingly mainstream, tools and automation grow in sophistication, Moore's Law dwindles, and problems become exhausted and are not replaced (e.g., move the entire economy onto the web) - I worry that this profession is overhyped. These kids might be late to the race.

Indeed, even late to the party.
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