491–500 of 790 posts
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Not "The IT Industry", surely only a subset of Windows systems managers.
I personally find that the term "IT" has become a bit of a code word for "Enterprise Wintel", and that anyone working outside of the gravitational pull of Microsoft prefers to describe themselves as working in "tech"
Having powershell + bash on linux lets me compare this way: powershell, 14 pids(threads?), 3119M Virt size, 80160kb Resident. bash, 1 pid, 22068kb Virt, 3976kb Resident. And this is simply starting the process to an idle prompt. This is on a Debian 8 64bit system. (using their Ubuntu 14.04 binary)
I'm not a huge fan of PowerShell but you're not really making a good comparison here. Bash is "just a shell" that executes commands with a few bits of syntactic sugar here and there to make it easier to string those commands together and perform some primitive logic. PowerShell is basically an interpreter that works more like a Java Virtual Machine. Consider the hypothetical example that you need to lookup 100 users…
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There’s more to open-source than license. Such as? You seem to have a mental model of things that make a project objectively open source, that don't include the license. I'd be curious what those things are.
I really don’t, it’s more of a feeling. With an open-source release like .NET it seems more like better documentation. In fact that was the case for early commercial Unixes—you needed the source code to actually use the system, but it wasn’t open-source. Open-source as-documentation (for lack of better term) is still useful. It makes bug fixing a whole lot easier, for one thing. But it’s not quite the same as open-so…
Having powershell + bash on linux lets me compare this way: powershell, 14 pids(threads?), 3119M Virt size, 80160kb Resident. bash, 1 pid, 22068kb Virt, 3976kb Resident. And this is simply starting the process to an idle prompt. This is on a Debian 8 64bit system. (using their Ubuntu 14.04 binary)
I'm not a huge fan of PowerShell but you're not really making a good comparison here. Bash is "just a shell" that executes commands with a few bits of syntactic sugar here and there to make it easier to string those commands together and perform some primitive logic. PowerShell is basically an interpreter that works more like a Java Virtual Machine. Consider the hypothetical example that you need to lookup 100 users…
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I ported a bunch of COM to Linux in the late 1990's. Not DCOM with the full RPC, but just in-process COM. I had .so shared libs with DllMain and DllCanUnload now in them, I had CoCreateClass, I had a significant part of the registry API implemented in terms of a text file store (HKEY_LOCAL_USER being in the home directory, HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE somewhere in /etc, ...) and such. IUnknown, QueryInterface, AddRef, Release,…
That's nice, but having CORBA implementations - why?
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I find that to be the issue. You are considering it just RAW text when it is actually formatted text that has been parsable for years with common unix command line tools. It not being in the format you consider a structured object does not mean it's not a object or even parsable. If you are using ad hoc regex I suspect you are not using all the tools available to you. I feel like Kernighan and Pike do a much better j…
So much this. What the M$ community fails to see is that text streams can be consumed by __everyone__. We've basically all accepted the fact that programs are used longer and in different ways than we'd expect. A brittle object model can only lead to vendor lock in and indigestible output.
There's a few points here:
1) Not all data is text. In fact, very little of the data people see/work with day-to-day is raw text. It's silly to transform a PNG image into text to be able to pipe it around. (Or to pipe around its filename instead and have a dozen tools all having to open and re-parse it each time.)
2) There's nothing on PowerShell preventing you from serializing a piece of data to text if you want to. The key is: you don't have to.
3) Systems that depend on 50,000 CLI tools all having their own ad-hoc text parsers are cemented, mummified, cannot change. You can't change the output format of ps (to use an example in this thread) without breaking an unknown number of CLI tools. Even if you come up with a great way to improve the output, doesn't matter, you've still broken everything. This is less (but not none!) of an issue with PowerShell. I like computers to evolve to become better over time, and text-based CLIs are a huge anchor preventing that.
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No. The well-known mature shell tools manage files and processes - neither of which are a focus of managing a Windows system. Windows revolves around services which you RPC to, which internally store their state - attempting to faff with their state from outside the service is almost always both undocumented and likely to cause failure. Powershell allowed those services to standardise their RPCs in such a way that sy…
It's been years since I used Windows APIs -- back then there was OLE Automation, which allowed dynamically, late-bound (call by name, really) RPC calls into COM from scripting languages. Has this been superceded by something else? Using IDL-defined COM interfaces from scripts sounds like something nobody would want to do.
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This is why I find PowerShell to be an answer to a question nobody asked. If bash/zsh isn't cutting it for you, drop into something like Python, Ruby or Perl to do the heavy lifting. PowerShell will never accumulate a library as comprehensive as what any of those three have, each has had decades to accumulate packages of all kinds, and more are still being added. It's odd, but not surprising given their history of "N…
I feel very similarly, but then I'm of the mind that if I can't apt-get it, I'm not interested, and I'll bet that "open source" doesn't mean to MS what it means to the open source world. As for the NIH syndrome, one of my favorite Paul Graham essays is still "What Languages Fix" ( http://www.paulgraham.com/fix.html ) particularly for C#: the problem that C# was invented to solve is that Microsoft doesn't control Java…
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So much this. What the M$ community fails to see is that text streams can be consumed by __everyone__. We've basically all accepted the fact that programs are used longer and in different ways than we'd expect. A brittle object model can only lead to vendor lock in and indigestible output.
The dollar sign is charming. There's a few points here: 1) Not all data is text. In fact, very little of the data people see/work with day-to-day is raw text. It's silly to transform a PNG image into text to be able to pipe it around. (Or to pipe around its filename instead and have a dozen tools all having to open and re-parse it each time.) 2) There's nothing on PowerShell preventing you from serializing a piece of…