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Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

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Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#91

Post by NotSammyHagar »

tcoppi wrote: post #75
codecamper wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heating with oil is expensive. solar panels actually can heat well. just heat a block of concrete. the concrete is the battery. electrodacus is doing this now.

Burning natural gas is among the cheapest forms of heating we have, and it works 24/7/365 and at all latitudes. Solar heating using a slab as a heat reserve requires re-engineering houses completely and may be impossible in a lot of places that don't get a lot of sun during the coldest months.

sure, nat gas works great where lines go to your house. I was at a house in the seattle area last weekend (a well developed metropolis) where people had propane. Solar goes everywhere, but depends on good weather to be useful.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#92

Post by planteen »

eric_arrr wrote: post #25

I've got your prospectus right here: http://rameznaam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Welcome-to-t...

What a misleading chart. A lot of this discussion about solar reminds me of the peak oil discussion that happened around 2005.

Oil is tanking due to US non-conventional oil and fracking. I think natural gas power generation will be relevant for decades.

Petroleum is a great way to store energy. Battery technology hasn't improved a whole lot in 200 years.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#93

Post by Gibbon1 »

tw04 wrote: post #87
Gibbon1 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (by some estimates, they'll be a net oil importer by 2030-2035). That's kind of a 'funny' observation. Saudi Arabia can't ever be an oil importer since the only thing they have to exchange for oil is oil.

I'm fairly certain the rest of the world would be happy to exchange cash for oil or oil for cash.

Saudi Arabia doesn't have any real way to earn cash except by selling oil. There is the whole Mecca thing, but that's it.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#94

Post by velodrome »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #84
velodrome wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right time ? They should have done this in 2007, when oil was $150/bbl. I would say this is a move of desperation...

The only reason oil is so cheap right now despite much higher consumption than in 2007 is that Saudi Arabia specifically decided to massively increase production, breaking OPEC. They did this because they see the writing on the wall. Better that they get all the remaining money to be made from oil and cut out entirely the people who extract oil less cheaply from shale and other sources.

Your thinking Saudi Arabia UNILATERALLY caused the oil glut. IF that were the case, Saudi Arabia would be more powerful than OPEC, etc. They are not. The thing is most of the world's oil producers were pumping oil at ever increasing quantities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Top_Oil_Producing_Countie...

As oil prices went down, they had to pump MORE to maintain operating costs.

http://econbrowser.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/us_oil_jan...

http://econbrowser.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/crude_oil_...

http://econbrowser.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/saudi_prod...

http://econbrowser.com/archives/2016/01/world-oil-supply-and...

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#95

Post by velodrome »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #89
velodrome wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're desperately trying to sell as much as possible before renwewables eat their lunch. This is not the case. It may be in the next 10-20 years but the real reason is due to fracking. The fact is that the US / Canada has added additional supply to the market and no longer imports as much oil from OPEC. http://www.drillingcontractor.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04...

makomk is right. US crude production is dropping since Saudi Arabia increased supply to drop oil prices below what the other suppliers can support. https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_crude_oil_field_production

US crude is sold at market prices and is NOT specifically dependent on Saudi Arabia supply increases (e.g. another oil producer could cut production and zero out that increase).

Also, the price fell long BEFORE Saudi Arabia increased production (about a year). This was due to excess supply and why Saudi Arabia tried to cut production in 2014.

http://www.artberman.com/wp-content/uploads/Chart_Market-Bal...

https://ycharts.com/indicators/saudi_arabia_crude_oil_produc...

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#96

Post by dang »

aburan28 wrote: post #51
dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and also rewritten in a way that breaks the HN guidelines. We've replaced it with a subtitle from the article. (Submitted title was 'Saudi Aramco Announces Largest IPO in history valued at $2 trillion'.)

Ah, I apologize for the misleading initial title

Appreciated! Not too big a deal.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#97

Post by i_feel_great »

codecamper wrote: post #73
tcoppi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other uses for oil besides gasoline that are not going to be displaced anytime soon. Jet fuel, home heating(could be if solar gets exceptionally cheap, but unlikely anytime soon), asphalt, plastics, etc. Those uses alone probably can't support oil at even its current depressed prices, but it will hardly be worthless for decades to come.

heating with oil is expensive. solar panels actually can heat well. just heat a block of concrete. the concrete is the battery. electrodacus is doing this now.

Also need to design and build with materials that maintain as constant a temperature as possible. Double glazing, insulated walls, floors and roofs, orientation to the sun etc.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#98

Post by i_feel_great »

velodrome wrote: post #78
return0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ll use the IPO money to invest in solar.

No, they will use that money to diversify out of oil (energy).

No, they will use that money to pay their inefficient and unproductive, sometimes parasitic public service workforce. Then their religious schools and holy men, then buy more weapons.

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#99

Post by codeddesign »

codecamper wrote: post #73
tcoppi wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other uses for oil besides gasoline that are not going to be displaced anytime soon. Jet fuel, home heating(could be if solar gets exceptionally cheap, but unlikely anytime soon), asphalt, plastics, etc. Those uses alone probably can't support oil at even its current depressed prices, but it will hardly be worthless for decades to come.

heating with oil is expensive. solar panels actually can heat well. just heat a block of concrete. the concrete is the battery. electrodacus is doing this now.

Perfect statement of someone who more than likely lives within a city with public utilities. However, there are actually a large amount of people in rural U.S. that have to use either Oil or Electric heating (in which both are expensive). In These rural area's, Oil heating is the norm and in order to convert to an electric heat there are extensive cost's involved (which most people in these area's cannot afford). Living in a city (especially west-coast) has certain amenities that the rest of the U.S. does not. Complete solar power in rural Wisconsin or the Dakota's for example isn't a real viable option. There is much less sunless then the west coast and extreme season weather changes (humidity, rain, snow, hot/cold).

Re: Saudi Aramco Plans World's Biggest IPO

#100

Post by tw04 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #93
tw04 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain the rest of the world would be happy to exchange cash for oil or oil for cash.

Saudi Arabia doesn't have any real way to earn cash except by selling oil. There is the whole Mecca thing, but that's it.

I'm not sure what part of this you're not getting. They're selling off a small stake of the state-owned oil company to diversify how they make money. They'll use the remaining money + new income from the corporations they'll build/buy to import oil. This isn't a hard concept to follow.
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