With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#221

Post by JadeNB » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #218

fdgdasfadsf wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are subpar (and osx or whatever Apple call their offering is no better). I've been stuck in an update hell with windows where security updates simply would not install the only solution I could find was a full re-install. I've been in a similar situation with Ubuntu and was able to fix it - but only because I understood it - otherwise I would have had to do a re-install. The key with Ubuntu updates is to stick t…

Interesting that you claim that OS X is not better when you are not even sure about the name…

It could be that fdgdasfadsf's point was a sarcastic observation about the upcoming switch of the name from 'Mac OS' [0] to 'macOS'.

[0] Or 'OS X', which, technically, is just the tenth version of Mac OS rather than an OS name in its own right (despite what I think is the fact that most people think of it as the latter).

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#222

Post by bisby » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

GFischer wrote: post #216

makomk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this slightly understates just how sleazy Microsoft were about it, if anything. Before the dialog that interpreted closing it with the X in the corner as agreement to install Windows 10, they rolled out a similar-looking dialog where that was the only way to avoid install Windows 10 - clicking on any of the buttons in the dialog would cause it to be installed.

My freaking cat installed Windows 10 on my laptop - he pressed enter on one of those dialogs with his paw and Windows started updating. I was more or less resigned to do so anyways, so he didn't do anything I wasn't going to do eventually, he just hastened it. I wonder if EULA's accepted by a cat have any validity though :) PD: I googled that and Slashdot has a story on a hardware to have cats accept EULAs :) https:/…

That seems to imply that you pick up your cat and have him press the button so you can say "it wasnt me!"... whereas in your case, you did not coerce the cat to press the button for you, so was it truly your instrument, or random occurence.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#223

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:49 PM UTC

wangchow wrote: post #74

makomk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this slightly understates just how sleazy Microsoft were about it, if anything. Before the dialog that interpreted closing it with the X in the corner as agreement to install Windows 10, they rolled out a similar-looking dialog where that was the only way to avoid install Windows 10 - clicking on any of the buttons in the dialog would cause it to be installed.

Over the past year I've noticed a lot of things mysteriously getting installed, things moving around, etc. I don't mind automatic updates so long as there's a separation from the new features and bug fixes. There should be a base core of apps that are necessary and a set of opt-in add-on features. It's time to move to Linux on laptop/desktop/tablet I think. While I love my surface pro 3 and the Windows 10 experience…

Debian used to be quite good at not stuffing things up. Even on testing/unstable.

For the past few months, my laptop pointer controls -- this is PS/2 mouse emulation, folks, what, 20+ years old? -- has broken thanks apparently to libinput.

Middle mouse button is only partially functional. Not that I use that ever....

Making increasingly complex things, and failing to keep an eye on the ball, ends up bolluxing stuff.

Happens on Microsoft (a lot), OS X (see Walt Mossberg's rant). Android, all the fucking time. And Debian.

I'm going back to a fucking sliderule....

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#224

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:51 PM UTC

Grishnakh wrote: post #219

syshum wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>First off, companies do not have ethical or moral obligations at all. Corporations are purely amoral. It's up to customers to penalize them for unethical or immoral actions by refusing to support them. If the customers refuse to stop throwing money at them, it's the customers that are to blame. I completely disagree with this, and believe this type of belief is one of the core problems in society. Corporations are…

>I completely disagree with this, and believe this type of belief is one of the core problems in society. That's a perfectly valid opinion, however the law states otherwise; our society and legal system both reward amoral thinking in corporations. >Corporations are just a social organization of people, and the people of that organization absolutely have ethical and moral obligations. You can believe this all you want…

So basically your defeatist attitude is simply never to discuss these topics because it is likely impossible to change.

Why do you come to places like this to discuss things if you do not actually want to discuss anything.

As to what I am going to do about it... as I already stated several times, you seem to keep skipping that parts, I have already left the Microsoft Ecosystem, did many decades ago.

that does not mean however I will not continue to address their bad actions publicly when ever I can. You see it as pointless, maybe it is, but silently going into the night is just as pointless

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#225

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

Grishnakh wrote: post #220

creshal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Too bad. If you sign a contract with your builder allowing him to do this Did we? There's a quite a bunch of lawsuits going on right now regarding that topic.

There's some lawsuits over MS forcing/tricking people into "upgrading" to Windows 10. This is something entirely different; this is MS not providing software updates in the way that some people would prefer. Customers don't have a right to tell their vendors exactly how to provide ongoing services. If you don't like it, find a better vendor. Also, the only successful lawsuit I've heard of against MS recently was the…

There will be a class action over windows 10, and it not assured that MS will win as you seem to think. Sorry that is just not how any of this works.

Further your continued instance that MS can literately do anything it wants and if you do not like it "get different software" is less than useless and not relevant.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#226

Post by Osiris » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #129

wangchow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the past year I've noticed a lot of things mysteriously getting installed, things moving around, etc. I don't mind automatic updates so long as there's a separation from the new features and bug fixes. There should be a base core of apps that are necessary and a set of opt-in add-on features. It's time to move to Linux on laptop/desktop/tablet I think. While I love my surface pro 3 and the Windows 10 experience…

On the flip side, I run Ubuntu on my htpc, and have for several years now... there have been a couple times where the updates broke audio, and the fix took on average 2 days, though I can imagine some people having worse experiences... Getting an MCE remote (arguably the most common PC remote type) working with Kodi (formerly xbmc and very popular full screen media player) took some cumbersome steps. On average one a…

I was running Ubuntu 14.04 on a small PC with XBMC and proprietary Nvidia drivers. The standard `apt-get update` would never rebuild the nvidia drivers so inevitably on reboot, X couldn't start and I had to figure out why, then rebuild the nvidia drivers manually, and try again.

I'm much more scared of Ubuntu aptitude updates than I am of Microsoft updates.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#227

Post by sjellis » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #104

Frank2312 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a wired connection, there is no toggle for that setting. There is probably a registry value you can change to do so though.

> There is probably a registry value you can change to do so though. Thanks, but with "probably" I sense that I'm about to get into what I call "mud wrestling" or hours or days of just throwing wild guesses against a wall to see if any appear to stick. I've only got 365 days a year, and I've given away far too many of them to such mud wrestling. GOD knows I do NOT want to do more of that. For physical things, say, an…

Speaking as a veteran Microsoft administrator, in total seriousness: buy a Mac. If you have a corporate network complete with good administrators, Windows can be made to work well enough. If you are a lone professional, Macs are secure, low-maintenance and have an OS designed by people that care about your privacy. Windows is probably not worth your time or energy right now unless there a specific piece of Windows-only software that you must use.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#228

Post by syshum » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

Grishnakh wrote: post #219

syshum wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>First off, companies do not have ethical or moral obligations at all. Corporations are purely amoral. It's up to customers to penalize them for unethical or immoral actions by refusing to support them. If the customers refuse to stop throwing money at them, it's the customers that are to blame. I completely disagree with this, and believe this type of belief is one of the core problems in society. Corporations are…

>I completely disagree with this, and believe this type of belief is one of the core problems in society. That's a perfectly valid opinion, however the law states otherwise; our society and legal system both reward amoral thinking in corporations. >Corporations are just a social organization of people, and the people of that organization absolutely have ethical and moral obligations. You can believe this all you want…

And one other thing, Simply choosing other software is pointless unless you can get the majority of users to follow you or get enough users to make a large enough PR problem for the offending company they must react. (as MS has done several times when complaints have reached critical mass)

one way to do that is Continue to bring up this issues in public forums, to educate the users of these software products.

One way not to do that is to continue to be a defeatist and say "well the world sucks and is run by sociopaths so i give up" which is what your posts are about

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#229

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

millstone wrote: post #60

talmand wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, there have been multiple Microsoft's that have been in conflict with each other for years.

They are large, they contain multitudes.

They are large. They contain monopolies.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#230

Post by jakebasile » Wed, Aug 17, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

maglavaitss wrote: post #146

I guess people shouldn't be speaking while debating if is the year of the Linux desktop or not. The choices in life are usually (and i emphasize usually) simple, and this case is no exception. You either discard your privacy and maybe your security and go Windows, or you discard your usability (for some) and go Linux. Or go Mac, FreeBSD, hell, even BeOS or Hurd or whatever floats your boat. But seeing people still bi…

Gaming is my passion, my hobby, and by far my largest expense save mandatory things such as my mortgage. I don't understand why this means that I cannot say that Windows 10 is upsetting to me unless I give up a huge part of my identity. It is an unfortunate situation from which there is little recourse for people like me.