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With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

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Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#41
Maybe this can be read as a cautionary tale about how easy it is to convince yourself to cut ethical corners when money is involved.

In an honest moment, I suspect that many Microsoft executives would acknowledge that the behavior described here is morally dubious. Yet they've allowed it to happen.

This reminds me that it's a daily challenge to avoid temptation and do the right thing. I hope that at least a few people in Redmond are thinking the same thing.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#43
post #2

Some highlights: Microsoft installed an app in users’ system trays advertising the free upgrade to Windows 10. Not satisfied, the company eventually made Windows 10 a recommended update so users receiving critical security updates were now also downloading an entirely new operating system onto their machines without their knowledge. This is essentially equivalent to saying: You've been running whatever version of Win…

> Specifically, when prompted with a Windows 10 update, if the > user chose to decline it by hitting the ‘X’ in the upper right > hand corner, Microsoft interpreted that as consent to download > Windows 10. So what? I clicked that X multiple times and it didn't _install_. It may have _downloaded_, I'm not sure, but did not install.

Yea, I'm not sure this article is completely accurate either. I waited until the very last day of the free upgrade, only clicking the "X", and never had a surprise Win10 install.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#44
post #2

Some highlights: Microsoft installed an app in users’ system trays advertising the free upgrade to Windows 10. Not satisfied, the company eventually made Windows 10 a recommended update so users receiving critical security updates were now also downloading an entirely new operating system onto their machines without their knowledge. This is essentially equivalent to saying: You've been running whatever version of Win…

So all the talk about the "new" Microsoft has been for nothing.

The "new Microsoft" thing only seems to apply to how developers are treated as they are the bread and butter that provide the apps to keep the platform afloat, not home users who are just cattle.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#45

I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer. - If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems. - You can't turn off Windows Update. It…

Everything you've listed is addressable by enterprise users in an AD environment. I.E., Microsoft's real customers. Using a copy of Windows 10 with no Cortana, Auto-updates, Groove, or Windows Defender right now.

Having that choice only be available to 'real' customers, while giving personal users no choice, is bad.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#46
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last few points are annoying for sure, but the first 3 are the result of 20+ years of Microsoft's poor reputation for security due to its prominence and numerous flaws. I completely sympathize with Microsoft's plight here, and while you might not be among those who are constantly infected, the number of people who do end up having problems is so high that they're willing to lose you as a cost of keeping the othe…

I completely understand why this is the default behavior, but there should be an "I'm not a normie" switch somewhere that allows me to control my experience. The Pro edition was originally that way, but as I understand it this is no longer the case and is similarly controlling.

Long story, but my Surface Pro 2 wound up with Win10 Pro. The Pro version is slightly more configurable for privacy than Home, but only the Enterprise version can completely turn off the telemetry and so on. Of course Enterprise is not easily available to end-users and it is expensive.

There are some utilities available that are supposed to improve the privacy/security of Win10 installations, e.g., [0].

My wife kept asking me if she should upgrade to Win10 and I said "don't do it". Since Win8.1 will be supported until 2023 or so, it really didn't matter. Now, thankfully, the "free upgrade" period is over and she won't be nagged to do the upgrade.

After all the years in the game, we'd think MS should know better than pulling all this crap on its users.

[0] https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#47
post #5

Should have just branded it Windows 7 SP2. But I guess everyone expects MS to support multiple branches of code forever. These discussions always avoid talking about the merits of data-driven design and always assume malicious intent.

If I buy a computer and/or pay Microsoft money, I think it's reasonable for me to expect my computer to do what I'd like it to do (and only what I'd like it to do). The problem isn't data-driven design, it's how the data is being collected. I'd be annoyed if my home builder occasionally came through my house while I was gone in an attempt to analyze how I was arranging furniture and using my space. They could, undoub…

I don't understand why you think you're entitled to that expectation. If you don't like what Windows does, buy an OS from someone else.

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#48
I dual boot on my PC, Ubuntu and Windows. I'm writing this from my Arch laptop. I only drop into Windows if I want to play a Windows-only game, but thankfully that's happening less and less. I've stopped buying games for Windows entirely so I won't have this problem in the future.

When I installed Windows10, I did the hour long dance of trying to find all the places where I could turn off tracking, even temporarily. Then I ran this[0] which does a pretty good job in a magic black box kind of way. It's a patch job, I don't recommend using Windows10 as a daily driver or putting too much faith into any gui setting or external patch.

Also updates are important. Software developers know maintaining multiple old versions and backporting fixes is more art than science and even with the best intentions is prone to incompleteness. Update your software. If you find you can't because upstream is consistently invasive/lacking/gross, chose a different project or you know... fork.

[0]: https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking

Re: With Windows 10, Microsoft Disregards User Choice and Privacy

#49
post #27

I upgraded willingly so the deceptive upgrade practices, while deplorable, didn't really affect me. What does affect me is that Microsoft refuses to let me control my computer. - If you turn off Windows Defender Real Time Protection it explicitly tells you "You can turn this off, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on". It turns itself on upon next reboot, it seems. - You can't turn off Windows Update. It…

> You can't turn off Windows Update. It will always end up downloading new updates. Just an idea, I don't know if it would work: there's a setting where you can tell Windows that you are on a "metered connection", which supposedly makes Windows postpone various background tasks until you tell it that you are ready for bandwidth abuse (which never happens). I doubt that this would influence any connections by third pa…

If you have a wired connection, there is no toggle for that setting.

There is probably a registry value you can change to do so though.

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