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What Great Listeners Actually Do

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Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#151
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either you frequently deal with very not nice people, or you for some reason have negative assumptions about those around you. I'd like to assure you that there are many people out there who use repeating back what other people say (a critical component of active listening) to sincerely verify whether they've understood someone correctly, as well as validate the idea that they are indeed listening.

I repeat what people say all the time, especially if I am asked a complex question to make sure I understand. A lot of people get annoyed at me.

Most people are not aware of how poorly they communicate and so they are upset when you don't just "know" what they mean.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#152

Are there any excellent books on this topic?

I'll throw out Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication." Call it one framework for listening centered around resolving conflict between individuals and groups.

It provides examples of the kind of active listening and questioning mentioned in the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication#Four_... https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Mar...

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#153
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True; but one way I can get around this is that the strategies don't all require the same underlying brain architecture requirements. For instance number 1 doesn't even require a brain. Other than that, doesn't my analysis, concerning only the order of steps that must occur in aggregate per algorithm, sorta work out regardless of parallelism? Or do you mean that a multi-state computational brain could do a collection…

I think it's not even remotely productive to make these wild assumptions about how the brain works. We know very little about the workings of the brain. It's very probable that this sort of analysis has almost no correlation to what's actually happening in the brain.

I get where you're coming from, but you're demanding too much rigor prematurely for my nascent idea :P Which, come to think of it, probably is related to my having browsed half of some Scott Aaronson paper on the philosophy of computational complexity.. You know what they say - neurons that fire together, wire together!

Just replace the "brains" in my post with "completely fictional abstract mechanistic brains whose behavior a human brain can emulate, hopefully not so far off from the qualia of The Real Thing." But I'm a big boy, and am all ears to PubMed-and-the-ilk articles that go into why I'm wrong!

I guess the point is, if you can sort of recognize these patterns of information process at a Very High Level Internal Logic and Monologue (tm? lol) in your experiences with consciousness - i.e. how would you explain how you thought internally from a premise to an answer - would it look much differently than this?

I doubt that the most pragmatic answer would include descriptions of the microsecond-level G-protein transactions, the millisecond tree diagram of where each synapse released how many vesicle molecules, how these were interpreted and then made sense of via an internal vocalization process, etc?

At the end of the day, how evidence based or proof based does arm-chair navel-gazing really need to be? :P

All tongue in cheek, of course. But maybe this discussion gives some people "intuition pumps" (ew, I just cited Dennett..) with which they'll make their own falsifiable claims that may even hopefully be worth sharing themselves.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#155
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you that repeating back word-for-word (or close to it) is not helpful. I think it's better to paraphrase back to the person talking; the closer the meaning of your paraphrase, the better it shows you've understood their point. Likewise with asking questions, if you can ask a relevant question that they haven't covered yet, it proves you're actually analyzing what they say. All of these things come under the…

> I think it's better to paraphrase back to the person talking; the closer the meaning of your paraphrase, the better it shows you've understood their point. I have found in the past that paraphrased repetition can be all the other person is looking for out of the conversation. A stylized sketch: A: Hey, I have this problem XXXX, I'm not sure what I should do about it. B: Ok, the problem is YYYY [paraphrased]? A: Tha…

When my second daughter was born, she had a huge head. We're talking 99th percentile. This is cause for concern, so we took her to a doctor. The conversation went like:

Me: What's up with my daughter's really big head?

Doctor: It's a condition called "macrocephaly".

Somehow, that was reassuring to me, despite realizing that all he did was literally just transliterate my words to Latin—"macro" -> big, "ceph-" -> head—as if that added any novel information.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#156
post #85

Most people prefer talking to listening, so just asking a few question can get most conversations going. It's not unusual to hear someone say "we had such a great chat" when really that person did most of the talking. A trick that is used by many introverts, with great success.

"With great success" for the introvert. The person doing the talking didn't really gain anything. And also when this happens to me I actually don't enjoy it. Propping up one sided conversations sucks, and I doubt that nearly as many people enjoy it as you're assuming.

You're making the same mistake as the person you are criticizing: Assuming that most people feel the same way you do about speaking vs listening.

As always, it depends on what the person needs. It seems like you are a person who needs others to answer back and you feel like you are "giving" and the other is "taking" if you are talking and they aren't.

Many feel the opposite. Listening is giving and talking is taking.

For a lot of people talking is much easier than listening. You just say whatever comes into your head.

Neither of you are more correct. Personally, I hate it when either person monologues. Both people talking is preferred. But that is just a preference.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#157
post #58

This is why I come to HN..to find articles like this. This defies what you learn at school, because I have been taught numerous times, to nod and stfu when you're holding a convo. Always interrupt if you have something constructive to say in a casual/business conversation (unless you're in a debate), that's how you gain trust and credibility.

I distinguish 'interject' (ie. to quickly add in your two bits' worth and then allow the speaker to resume) from 'interrupt' (ie. to talk over them and keep talking, often on a different topic).

Yes, the social difference is tremendous. Few people mind if you interject. But if you truly interrupt you're just sidetracking the conversation, that doesn't really help.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The brain can emulate a Turing machine but not necessarily vice versa

I don't see a good reason why a turing machine can't simulate a brain, or even a whole universe

Maybe. You'd need to understand the universe before you can answer in the affirmative.

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#159
post #95

As someone who has taught and researched listening skills, I found this article very insightful. However, let me add that the simple skills they described at the beginning (not interrupting, saying "um-hum," and being able to repeat back), are still good to teach because they are better than what most people do much of the time. Here's another HN link on listening: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12228062

I couldn't disagree more. My take on listening: https://letmeexplainyou.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/how-to-list...

I am not entirely sure why I am getting the downvotes. Anyone care to explain?

Re: What Great Listeners Actually Do

#160
post #57
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I despise the tactic of repeating back what other people said - it shows me that the other person isn't really dwelling on what I said, or more often in my experience, are using that to distort what I am saying in order to fit a particular agenda. I rather someone not fake listening in that case and wasting everyone's time.

I'm with you that repeating back word-for-word (or close to it) is not helpful. I think it's better to paraphrase back to the person talking; the closer the meaning of your paraphrase, the better it shows you've understood their point. Likewise with asking questions, if you can ask a relevant question that they haven't covered yet, it proves you're actually analyzing what they say. All of these things come under the…

Yes, with technical conversations / difficult concepts I think this is a useful way to do it. If I can reword it and keep the same meaning we can assume I have understood correctly.
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