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Too Poor to Afford the Internet

nytimes.com

151–158 of 158 posts

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#151
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of the cost of any kind of infrastructure is labor, which scales with local wages.[1] A New York subway ticket is about $2.75. That's about 11x more than the cost of a ticket on the Kiev Metro. And it's not like the New York subway makes a profit--fares cover only about half the system's operating costs.[2] In Baltimore, I paid about $50 for a 50mbps connection, or about 20x more than a subway ticke…

"The vast majority of the cost of any kind of infrastructure is labor, which scales with local wages." I'm not sure that's true. Let's say it costs VeriCast $500/year to maintain a single home's landline and broadband connections (including the stuff in the street), for which they charge the customer say $700 per year. Do they really have one employee per 200 connections (assuming $100k full-loaded cost per employee)…

> That's about the total number of employees of ComCast, Verizon and AT&T. But those folks provide other services (like cellular service). Where is my math wrong?

Well for one you aren't adding in contractors. The people actually building the network aren't typically direct employees. The usual pattern is spend a ton of money to build out the network, earn it back through a number of years and then use the added cash flow to expand once more. Wireless networks are what the money is going to right now.

Regardless, you can look through all the various telecom quarterly reports to see where the money is going. They are for the most part profitable endeavours, but not especially lucrative (AT&T's latest quarter had a 8.67% net profit margin compared to 22.68% for Google).

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#152
post #98

I question the premise. I cannot think of anything I do online at home that is essential to my being a productive member of society. 90% of my internet use at home is for entertainment. It's today's cable TV. It's not essential.

>online at home

>my internet use at home

I'm guessing you're able to use the internet at work or school?

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#153
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to be, as a condition of their journal subscriptions. Librarians generally want to extend access as far as possible, but they are terrified of pissing off a publisher and getting a journal taken away from their entire university's community of researchers who need it to do their work.

This doesn't have to be the case: the libraries of public German universities are often called "University and State Library" and are open to anyone living in the state.

There are plenty of public-access university libraries. What they're restricted from doing is extending journal access to users who are neither attached to the university or physically present in the library.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#154
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Albany, NY and pay TWC $80 for a 50/5 connection. $50 gets you 25/1. Our stupid state government gave them more money to make 50/5 100/7. Our library gets a lot of Internet patronage. In our city the library has done a great job of transitioning into a third place. People like to use the "think of the poor children" card, but I see all walks of life there. It's a great place.

Does TWC have different prices in different places?!! This seems so wrong. I'm paying $45 for 50/5 TWC connection in Raleigh, NC.

Totally. My brother in law lives in the burbs where Verizon deploys FIOS 5 miles away (they don't like cities). He can pay $39.99 for my service from TW, or $69 for 100/100 from VZ.

TWC is less noxious than Verizon though -- they don't block Netflix, etc in my area.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to be, as a condition of their journal subscriptions. Librarians generally want to extend access as far as possible, but they are terrified of pissing off a publisher and getting a journal taken away from their entire university's community of researchers who need it to do their work.

If the universities really cared about open access, they could unionize against the publishers. Imagine the top 20 schools, which also happen to be the ones producing the research, refused to abide by the publisher rules. Would they all have their access revoked? It's never made sense to me why, despite billions of dollars budgeted toward scientific funding, private companies make money charging for journal access. W…

> Would they all have their access revoked?

Yes, I imagine they would. They would also probably be taken to court for breach of contract, and the courts would fine them a substantial amount. I would certainly hope that this would be the case - even the top 20 universities have to obey the law, and producing research has never been a valid excuse for choosing to ignore a law you don't like.

Criminal activity is not the answer here - nor should it ever be.

What the universities can do, if they cared, is re-negotiate their contracts with the publishing houses. Of course, this requires assigning a monetary value to the amount they care, which must be greater that the inevitable price increase they woulld incur for the change in access restrictions.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#156

Is it really $50 per month for basic internet in New York? In the UK https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/packages/ shows the cheapest broadband package - which includes telephone line rental - to be £18 per month (average across the contract when delivered router is included). That's around $25 (you can get "free" with a telephone service). What struck me was the kid in the header image has a swanky new laptop, the sto…

The kid's Macbook Air looked like a loaner or library machine (according to the stop sign sticker on the bottom). I doubt anybody that can't afford internet would buy a $899 machine.

Is have thought that too, just IIRC that the article noted the kids being their own laptops and the image is titled as if an exemplar.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to set all of that up is a massive barrier to entry for the technically average or below-average person. With a modern phone, all you have to do is turn it on and you're good to go.

There are lots of people that you can simply ask and are often willing to help (for example at hacker spaces or maker spaces).

Let's say you're an unemployed single mother, struggling on public programs, looking for work, occasionally selling food stamps to handle emergencies. You worry about how you're going to afford to commute to work before your first paycheck comes in if you CAN find a job, but you can't find a job because your Internet access is so limited, potential employers turn you away because they can tell exactly what your situation is the moment you step in the door (Maybe your shower stopped working, or you've been sleeping on a friend's floor, you can't afford to get your hair done, you only have one old and badly-fitting "interview outfit," you're out of breath after running from the nearest bus stop).

But now you're supposed to go and spend $110+ on a Rasberry Pi and some computer equipment, and find a local hacker space full of rich white dudes and hope that they help you set it up rather than awkwardly avoiding you and quietly wondering how you got in? Class, race, and educational barriers aren't imaginary things that can be solved by the "maker spaces" with friendly utopian facades. In my experience, they're extremely judgmental, fad-driven, and can be overwhelming and demoralizing for those without basic technical knowledge or who don't check at least a few of the "are you one of us?" boxes.

Sure, there are a lot of old people at these meetups and maker spaces, sure there are a lot of women, sure there are a lot of ethnic minorities, people with kids, poor people, people with extremely unprivileged backgrounds, people who don't wear the typical "t-shirt jeans/khakis" uniform, and a lot of people who are just starting out and learning. But you start piling on too many of these "minority statuses" at once, and all of a sudden, it's a very different experience. Even if someone DID have the ability and knowledge to pull this plan together (I mean, I have a master's in software engineering and have been programming professionally for 10 years, but even I would have to do some serious Googling to set up a Rasberry Pi with my TV), why would they willingly put themselves in a potentially ostracizing and embarrassing situation? Very few people want to be the odd one out, or be the subject of speculation, or have their skills and worth questioned while they're in unfamiliar territory, outside of their comfort zone. Questioning why poor people aren't "taking advantage" of these opportunities that are so clearly available to you is just contributing to the problem.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#158

Is it really $50 per month for basic internet in New York? In the UK https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/packages/ shows the cheapest broadband package - which includes telephone line rental - to be £18 per month (average across the contract when delivered router is included). That's around $25 (you can get "free" with a telephone service). What struck me was the kid in the header image has a swanky new laptop, the sto…

The kid's Macbook Air looked like a loaner or library machine (according to the stop sign sticker on the bottom). I doubt anybody that can't afford internet would buy a $899 machine.

I bought my cousin an 11" Macbook Air for $300 (refurbished, mid 2011 model) She's a bright kid, but living with her grandmother (not a great home situation) in rural Utah, and only had Internet access through her phone. Phones are usually more important than a computer, if you have to choose between the two (and don't have reliable Internet, or the skills/knowledge to set up Google Voice, or, say, VOIP software on your laptop), but a MacBook doesn't have to be more expensive than a smartphone.
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