Too Poor to Afford the Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#141

Post by mooreds » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

dilemma wrote: post #113

jawns wrote: post #10

Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? They are, as this piece points out, very popular places to access computers and the Internet, and many libraries offer a wealth of digital content. I can check out and instantly download e-books and audiobooks and movies from my library. It's certainly conceivable that they might have transitioned less well. There…

>Bookstores have felt those pains hard; it's not that people don't want content, but they want content in different forms, and a lot of bookstores just couldn't move fast enough. I'd say rather than people preferring digital, its the browsing and buying experience of the same old printed matter that needs to change for them to stay competitive. Bookstores have until now been little more than warehouses that store boo…

> Experience, service, novelty.

And a price close enough to that found online that you can get the close. Or you're going to get showroomed.

An alternative to having the price close enough is to have the price in the ballpark and have a sense of urgency such that the consumer will buy now. I have walked into Barnes and Noble and bought a book because I wanted it right then and I was out and about. Perhaps I could have had it for $5 cheaper on Amazon, but saving that $5 wasn't worth the wait.

Another alternative is to have (at least some of )the physical experience be purchased--hence the coffee shops in the bookstore--you can't get hot coffee via Amazon. (Yet?)

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#142

Post by MichaelGG » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 3:35 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #138

kingnothing wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to set all of that up is a massive barrier to entry for the technically average or below-average person. With a modern phone, all you have to do is turn it on and you're good to go.

There are lots of people that you can simply ask and are often willing to help (for example at hacker spaces or maker spaces).

So these lower income people are expected to a: know there's low cost ARM devices that can use their HDMI TV as an input, b: know hackerspaces exist and think they aren't for "hackers", c: walk in to one and say "set this up for me"?

That's highly, incredibly, improbable. Anyone meeting such criteria probably always got a device.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#143

Post by greedo » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 3:52 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #117

crazy1van wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> given the poor level of funding Do you have a source for this? According to an OECD study I found, the US spends among the most in the world per pupil on education. https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb...

From your link: > Traditionally the United States spends big parts of its educational budget on non-instructional items such as security -- more so than some other nations. Whenever I read about the US I'm absolutely terrified

That quote is really without context. When I look at the "security" of the schools my children have been enrolled in, I see minimal security. Facilities security isn't like a prison by any stretch, and the cost can't be that high. The dominant cost factor for education is labor costs, not equipment/facilities costs.

And the "--more than some other nations." tag is just poor journalism without added context. I'm sure that the US spends more money on metal detectors than a lot of the small countries in the world. But that doesn't tell us anything useful.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#144

Post by Mister_Snuggles » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 4:00 PM UTC

My local library is trying out a pilot program to loan out hotspots[0] the same way they loan out books. The hotspots have unlimited data and it looks like the only real restriction on them, beyond the usual stuff you'd get from a normal ISP, is that you bring them back after the loan period is up. Hopefully the pilot project results in a permanent program. Library cards are now free, so cost isn't a barrier anymore.

The City of Edmonton provides free WiFi[1] in a number of places[2], albeit with more restrictions. These mainly seem to be at rec centres and LRT stations, but there are also some parks included.

If someone in Edmonton didn't have internet access and needed it, it's available without too much trouble.

[0] http://www.epl.ca/hotspots/

[1] http://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/open-wifi.aspx

[2] https://data.edmonton.ca/Facilities-and-Structures/Open-City...

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#145

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

ssanders82 wrote: post #140

kazinator wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? Yes, but at the slight risk of sounding ridiculous. Libraries were computerized long before the "Internet age".

He said "digital age" not "Internet age" and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc. Were you just looking for a comment to criticize?

[deleted]

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#146

Post by kazinator » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

ssanders82 wrote: post #140

kazinator wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? Yes, but at the slight risk of sounding ridiculous. Libraries were computerized long before the "Internet age".

He said "digital age" not "Internet age" and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc. Were you just looking for a comment to criticize?

> and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc

From that, I inferred that "digital age" is being used to denote "Internet age".

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#147

Post by wolfgke » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 5:34 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #142

wolfgke wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of people that you can simply ask and are often willing to help (for example at hacker spaces or maker spaces).

So these lower income people are expected to a: know there's low cost ARM devices that can use their HDMI TV as an input, b: know hackerspaces exist and think they aren't for "hackers", c: walk in to one and say "set this up for me"? That's highly, incredibly, improbable. Anyone meeting such criteria probably always got a device.

I know low-income people (living from unemployment benefits) who meet these criteria (thus surely not "highly, incredibly, improbable"). The example with the hacker space was just one illuminating example (though I don't consider it as strange: In the city where I live the hacker space organized some public technology tinkering project in the past). There are of course lots of other ways how you can find people who can explain how to set one up.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#148

Post by MichaelGG » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 5:37 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #147

MichaelGG wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So these lower income people are expected to a: know there's low cost ARM devices that can use their HDMI TV as an input, b: know hackerspaces exist and think they aren't for "hackers", c: walk in to one and say "set this up for me"? That's highly, incredibly, improbable. Anyone meeting such criteria probably always got a device.

I know low-income people (living from unemployment benefits) who meet these criteria (thus surely not "highly, incredibly, improbable"). The example with the hacker space was just one illuminating example (though I don't consider it as strange: In the city where I live the hacker space organized some public technology tinkering project in the past). There are of course lots of other ways how you can find people who c…

And have you given them an rpi yet?

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#149

Post by taejo » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:01 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #69

chatmasta wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public libraries are amazingly accessible, but university libraries remain complicit in the ongoing racket of pay-to-read academic literature. Although many university libraries allow guest access during the day, you cannot access their academic subscriptions unless you're on the secure wifi.

They have to be, as a condition of their journal subscriptions. Librarians generally want to extend access as far as possible, but they are terrified of pissing off a publisher and getting a journal taken away from their entire university's community of researchers who need it to do their work.

This doesn't have to be the case: the libraries of public German universities are often called "University and State Library" and are open to anyone living in the state.

Re: Too Poor to Afford the Internet

#150

Post by wolfgke » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #148

wolfgke wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know low-income people (living from unemployment benefits) who meet these criteria (thus surely not "highly, incredibly, improbable"). The example with the hacker space was just one illuminating example (though I don't consider it as strange: In the city where I live the hacker space organized some public technology tinkering project in the past). There are of course lots of other ways how you can find people who c…

And have you given them an rpi yet?

For some I set up one, some prefer other ways to access the internet (for example a used computer that they got cheaply from who-knows-where).

I just gave the RPi as one example of a cheap example of a non-mobile-device for accessing the internet - there are of course lots of other ways, too.