Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#191

Post by coldtea » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

>I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind.

Not any different that tens of different ways to do that: from videogame addiction (someone mentioned it already), to depression (and in fact marijuana can help fight that), not knowing what to do with yourself, to accidental pregnancy, to drinking, to studying for a liberal arts degree (couldn't resist the joke), ...

Besides most people don't go to the university and don't have any particular "big plans" anyway, marijuana or not.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#192

Post by roywiggins » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:23 PM UTC

lisivka wrote: post #147

Clubber wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution. I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general a…

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

The UK doesn't have jaywalking laws and it seems to work okay. Not sure about crossing directly against a light, but in general if it's safe to cross, it's legal to cross.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#193

Post by at-fates-hands » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:29 PM UTC

67726e wrote: post #44

Donzo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I have anecdotal evidence of people smoking marijuana everyday for 10-20 years and remaining extremely productive. Oftentimes drug use is a symptom of a greater psychological problem/issue. Perhaps the underlying issues are causing the negative behaviors and the drugs are only enabling it.

I know both. I have family members who smoke routinely for basically their lives. You would never know, they don't let it interrupt their life. To them it is more like coming home and having a glass of wine and relaxing on the couch with a good book. I also know and lived with roommates for whom marijuana was a real problem. The kind of person who would smoke every day, even coming home on their lunch break and takin…

>> I've seem how irritable they can be when they're not blazed.

This is a symptom of this:

>> They may not be chemically addicted

When people who smoke weed on a regular basis stop, the effects are similar to nicotine withdrawal - irritability, anxiety, fatigue and difficulty concentrating.

>> but the "harmless marijuana" trope is a little much.

I agree and would also add that when people are forced to consider statistics of people driving while high has increased dramatically in places like Washington and Colorado, their only response is, "Well drunk drivers kill way more people than people driving high." as some way to justify that it's ok.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#194

Post by TelmoMenezes » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #126

IsaacL wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also known three people who smoked marijuana regularly and developed serious life problems as a result, along with a larger number who didn't develop major problems but who definitely "stalled". I also knew many who smoked it regularly without major issues, so I'm not saying it inevitably causes problems, but I am 99.99% certain that if you already suffer problems with motivation or life direction, marijuana can…

To add to the antidotal evidence... Ive smoked a lot of weed for a long time, I finished college, have a job paying well above average, I work on projects / my startup, I have a wife, and am looking to start a family (at which point I'll stop smoking for a bit). Further, my startup is starting to make money and I'm up for promotion at work. Then to tie this in nicely which the argument that people with issues will ig…

> It's probably a symptom of a larger issue when people abuse drugs and attempt to "opt-out" of society.

Let's not forget that it can also be a symptom of society itself. In a scenario where the majority is insane, behaving sanely makes you look crazy.

I understand the disgust for supporting human beings who are inert, but I suspect it's largely irrational. The idea that we should "all do our share" is becoming more and more impractical as technology progresses. There simply isn't a big enough share to keep everyone occupied, and the majority of jobs are completely unnecessary, if not detrimental to our collective welfare.

Let's face it: most of it is just status games and posturing. Anecdotally, cannabis dissolves the desire to participate in status games. My personal theory is that it tends to increase the creativity of people who find meaning in their work and the desire to "opt out" in those who don't. Unfortunately, out current economic system creates a surplus of the latter, because we are stuck with a system of health distribution that is based on human labor, which is increasingly irrelevant.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#195

Post by josinalvo » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

natecavanaugh wrote: post #136

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

I agree with you, but... :) There are quite a few people who go overboard with it, and I'm not arguing complete unfettered access for all, but I think the reason it's dangers are trivialized is in reaction to how trivialized alcohol is in our culture. Every show you watch, and people are drinking alcohol left and right. In entertainment it's just something you do. Costco is willing to sell you gallons of it cheaply a…

While I fully agree with limiting the WOW and canabis usage of irresponsible users as a goal, I wonder how to do it without creating very illiberal policies.

That is: I am not opposed to a small amount of "nanny-state" to force heavy users into a better path (and that is very illiberal, I know) but I wonder if it is possible to do it in a fashion that has minimal "illiberal side effects".

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#196

Post by wldcordeiro » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

Houshalter wrote: post #186

dietrichepp wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a lot like World of Warcraft, the way you describe it. Maybe we should criminalize MMORPGs? That part is a bit of a bad joke, but I've known people who have lost chunks of their lives to WoW, and the criticisms you outline for cannabis seem to mirror my perception of WoW very closely—"addictive", "causes them to be extremely unmotivated", and "a lot of people end up really trapped by it". To be honest, when I…

http://lesswrong.com/lw/h3/superstimuli_and_the_collapse_of_... >At least three people have died playing online games for days without rest. People have lost their spouses, jobs, and children to World of Warcraft. If people have the right to play video games - and it's hard to imagine a more fundamental right - then the market is going to respond by supplying the most engaging video games that can be sold, to the poi…

Infinite Jest thought it'd be a single ultimate piece of media that does it, but that was underestimating our ability to create addictively stimulating media wasn't it?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#197

Post by rhizome » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:44 PM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #170

poof131 wrote: post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

Good God, 7x, 400x, and 800x! How is continued marching down a ruinous path and destroying lives in the wake not entirely criminal, if not a massive human rights violation?

It's not ruinious for them.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#198

Post by tamana » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:44 PM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #116

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

I've also known three people who smoked marijuana regularly and developed serious life problems as a result, along with a larger number who didn't develop major problems but who definitely "stalled". I also knew many who smoked it regularly without major issues, so I'm not saying it inevitably causes problems, but I am 99.99% certain that if you already suffer problems with motivation or life direction, marijuana can…

How do you know weed caused demotivation, and demotivated weed users weren't already demotivated?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#199

Post by tamana » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:46 PM UTC

IsaacL wrote: post #121

Retric wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be ok with people dropping out and becoming monks, but somehow living a relaxed lifestyle is somehow a major problem. Is it ok for people not to be a cog in the machine that makes your lifestyle possible or not? Sure, I might be happier if my past self saved even more money, lived a vegan lifestyle, or learned to play an instrument. But, I don't think it's a problem that I have failed to optimize for makin…

Having known both drop-out monks and drop-out stoners, they're very different. Long-term meditators seemed to be very psychologically healthy, self-aware, cheerful, disciplined, etc whereas long-term stoners tended to be delusional, paranoid and irritable. (Many people into meditation had at some point used drugs, but eventually decided they were at best a distraction and at worst actively harmful).

Did you know that many religions use drugs as part of meditation?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#200

Post by tamana » Sat, Aug 13, 2016, 6:57 PM UTC

lisivka wrote: post #147

Clubber wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution. I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general a…

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

Yes, cars should drive slower when near pedestrians.