Live data from Hacker News

Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

161–170 of 266 posts

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#161
post #139

A problem is that women are smoking marijuana and may not yet know they are pregnant. Medical marijuana laws and pregnancy: implications for public health policy. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422056 "Although there is much to learn yet about the effects of prenatal marijuana use on pregnancy and child outcome, there is enough evidence to suggest that marijuana, contrary to popular perception, is not a harmles…

100% agree. Isn't this the same situation with alcohol and tobacco?

That was the CDC's logic here: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/04/46560714...

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#162

INSIGHT: Being in a position to observe the behavior of users -- MANY users -- over a period of time, and non-users in the same settings. Most of you probably don't have that experience. - Parents do. Ask parents "how did your kid change after commencing use of pot?" - Teachers do, if they know a student imbibes. These days teachers have a great chance to see the difference between regular students and those who smok…

How exactly do you know which of your tenants are using cannabis? Do you drug test your tenants? > You should not need to live in an altered state, intoxication, and if you are frequently choosing intoxication from pot as 'recreation', something is wrong. Your comment is ironic evidence for insobriety. Anger, stress and frustration are all palpable, and you may need some help to unwind. Hell, I could use a beer after…

Imagine showing vacant apartments to prospective renters since 1993 -- for 23 years. Lots of units, lots of prospective tenants.

In 1993 I had no pool of 'before move-in/after move-in' experience with tenants. 23 years on, I have a large number of 'before move-in/after move-in' tenant experiences.

So when a tenancy went bad, over time I started making a mental note of

1) the social cues the tenant made when I first met them

2) what their behavior was after move-in

I started seeing patterns. After 23 years of "before move-in/after move-in" experiences, I developed predictors.

In my mind, I suspect that Judges, teachers, cops, hiring managers, any profession where you have a lot of "before/after" experience with lots of people -- have developed similar wisdom, similar predictors.

It's probably a survival skill humans have -- if you get burned over and over, you start connecting "is there any way I could have used this person's before behavior to protect myself from their after behavior?"

Here are some of the screening-out cues I use:

1) during the initial showing of the unit and meeting, does the person forget something I just told them ("It's a one year lease")? Did they exhibit more than one memory lapse like that?

2) was the person inarticulate in writing (on the application), or in their speech?

3) on the continuum of demeanor (behavior and body language) from "street people behavior" to "my professional peers" -- was the prospective tenant closer to "street person" demeanor or closer to "professional peer"?

4) does the person smoke cigarettes? Over 23 years most of my pot-smoking tenants smoked cigarettes. It makes sense I guess, smoking cigarettes for nicotine, smoking pot for thc.

The list of 'cues' I have is not perfect; people are still moving in and smoking pot inside my properties in violation of the lease.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#163
post #88

The big question is why drugs are illegal at all? Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business. 100's of billions of dollars turning the wheels of the shadow economy every day. Who stands to lose all that money if drugs were legalized? Who is involved in drug business? think of all of the players in the chain.. We know examples of developed countries where drugs are legalized and everyone did not become a junkie over n…

Past experiences with widespread drug availability and addiction suggest social cohesion is lost as people become dependent on the next fix. Look up the history of opium war in China or for more recent experiences, drug problems in Punjab India or the drug dependency in the Middle East .

In the Opium Wars, opium was illegal. It wasn't much of a risk to smokers, but it drove the cost up and drove the trade underground. Social cohesion is lost when addicts can't go through socially acceptable avennues to get the next fix they're dependent on.

If you can just pick up your fix from the corner store like alcoholics can, then you won't expect social cohesion to be affected any more than it is by alcoholics, especially since many of the people who might become addicts after legalization were likely to become alcoholics anyway.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#164

The big question is why drugs are illegal at all? Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business. 100's of billions of dollars turning the wheels of the shadow economy every day. Who stands to lose all that money if drugs were legalized? Who is involved in drug business? think of all of the players in the chain.. We know examples of developed countries where drugs are legalized and everyone did not become a junkie over n…

I recommend people read The Politics of Heroin and A Legacy of Ashes. Both great books.

Basically, The US makes drugs illegal and then enforces embargoes against other countries so they comply. Drugs have a very inelastic demand so this doesn't actually stop people from using them, but it DOES make drugs an extremely profitable enterprise.

Keeping drugs illegal has at least one massive 'benefit' -- if law enforcement grants anyone immunity and gives them permission to deal in drugs, they are essentially immediately granted billions of dollars. It's really not hard to grow poppies or cook meth or truck packages between cities. Nothing about that is intellectually difficult.

Consider the following: If the head of the CIA told you that you had total immunity and could deal in drugs all you wanted, how much money could you make? The answer, for any idiot in the world, is literally billions of dollars per year within just a few years.

This becomes enormously useful when we want to implement regime change around the world or otherwise provide funding to certain elements without directly giving them money.

Someone comes to the CIA and says they want to overthrow the government of Nicaragua but don't have enough money? Just let them deal drugs. [Contras]

Someone comes to the CIA and says they want to help fight against the soviets in Afghanistan but don't have enough money? Just let them deal drugs. [Osama bin Laden, Hekmatyar, various other Afghan groups, and Pakistan's ISI]

Someone comes to the CIA and says they want to fight against communist-backed forces in Laos but don't have enough money? Just let them deal drugs. They run out of adult soldiers and have to start using children? That's fine, give them the go-ahead. [Vang Pao]

The illegality of drugs is integral to our foreign policy strategy.

To my understanding, until about a hundred years ago, we didn't mess with other countries. Remember our policy of "isolationism"? It's hard to, these days, but that was once a core part of our national identity.

But since the end of WWII, the US has overthrown a sovereign foreign government, attempted to overthrow them, or attempted to overthrow them through support to a third-party, almost once per year. Literally about 50 times since then. Our intervention with some countries is absolutely brutal. We installed the Iraqi governments both immediately before and after Saddam's. You think Iran hates us because of our freedom? I think they hate us because we refuse to respect theirs.

Understand that the OSS/CIA was created because we had no idea what was going on during WWII. Prior to WII, we did not have a foreign intelligence agency. During WWII, we did, but it was an Intelligence agency, not a paramilitary or interventionist organization. Then everything went to crap and now we are the most hated country in the entire world.

Drugs let us weaken and overthrow regimes without doing anything. Suddenly, _inaction_ is sufficient. Just don't arrest that guy or any of his friends, and don't investigate their activities.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you know which of your tenants are using cannabis? Do you drug test your tenants? > You should not need to live in an altered state, intoxication, and if you are frequently choosing intoxication from pot as 'recreation', something is wrong. Your comment is ironic evidence for insobriety. Anger, stress and frustration are all palpable, and you may need some help to unwind. Hell, I could use a beer after…

Imagine showing vacant apartments to prospective renters since 1993 -- for 23 years. Lots of units, lots of prospective tenants. In 1993 I had no pool of 'before move-in/after move-in' experience with tenants. 23 years on, I have a large number of 'before move-in/after move-in' tenant experiences. So when a tenancy went bad, over time I started making a mental note of 1) the social cues the tenant made when I first m…

That list of "cues" is hilarious. Guaranteed you know professional people who hide it from you because, well, you know why. And to reiterate, you need to unwind. Holy crap.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#166
post #164

The big question is why drugs are illegal at all? Drugs are a multi trillion dollar business. 100's of billions of dollars turning the wheels of the shadow economy every day. Who stands to lose all that money if drugs were legalized? Who is involved in drug business? think of all of the players in the chain.. We know examples of developed countries where drugs are legalized and everyone did not become a junkie over n…

I recommend people read The Politics of Heroin and A Legacy of Ashes. Both great books. Basically, The US makes drugs illegal and then enforces embargoes against other countries so they comply. Drugs have a very inelastic demand so this doesn't actually stop people from using them, but it DOES make drugs an extremely profitable enterprise. Keeping drugs illegal has at least one massive 'benefit' -- if law enforcement…

Yup. Additionally, Opium Wars 1 and 2...

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#167
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace Marijuana with Alcohol in that comment and it's all still true. But Alcohol is not schedule 1.

I don't follow. It is ok to downvote medical studies from leading medical journals because alcohol already harms infants? And I suppose people reason that marijuana use will not lead to any increase at all of neurologically harmed infants? Perhaps someone could explain why they want to adopt policy that will lead to an increase of neurologically harmed infants and stillbirths. Empathy is key. Try to imagine infants t…

The study is totally irrelevant. Accutane and Thalidomide will do a lot worse to your fetus too... still not schedule 1.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>anecdotal evidence of people smoking marijuana everyday for 10-20 years and remaining extremely productive. // What roles, in what areas, have they risen to in this time?

I've smoked for 15+ years, I earn in the top 5% of the UK writing software for big players if that is a metric you respect. Only as a software developer although I've had the opportunity to be "promoted" I chose to write code...for more money. However I recognize that the amount I am smoking of current is affecting my cognitive load (I think). If I was drinking alcohol in the same amount I smoke cannabis I'd be an al…

Maybe not genetics, however there is something to be said for blaming the parents. With an alcoholic father you may have developed a slight bit of 'co-dependency' growing up, leading to things like wanting to find comfort in weed and going the extra mile to make your employers happy. As a society we are not well educated about personality disorders (which exist on a scale) and how these develop in childhood with resulting addiction related issues. The general debate on drugs is naive because we do not understand these underlying causes.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#170
post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

Good God, 7x, 400x, and 800x! How is continued marching down a ruinous path and destroying lives in the wake not entirely criminal, if not a massive human rights violation?
Post reply on HN