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Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

nytimes.com

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Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#171

Post by pmyjavec »

martinald wrote: post #86
pmyjavec wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any real evidence to back anything you've said up? Sorry, but you can't quantify 10 years behind, it's just purely subjective. Just because you know people who are lazy and use cannabis, proves very little I'm afraid. Do they drink beer also? Not attacking you, but it's comments and attitudes like this that help politicians justify silly things, such as, "The war on drugs". The war on drugs is one of the…

I am 10000000% against the war on drugs. This is obviously anecdotal. I am simply saying that cannabis has a very dark side to it which robs young people of a lot of their productivity and ambition. They usually never drink alcohol I find - or very little. I know about 5 people who fell into this trap and when (some) of them packed it in have enormous regret. My point is that this isn't talked about with cannabis.

Sorry, but there just isn't "very dark side" to a plant.

It sounds to me like some of your friends have been using a substance to fill a void in their lives or avoid facing some issues, this is really terrible and I understand.

Truth is, there are just so many ways people can use and abuse things and it's wrong to blame anything in particular. If people sniff glue to mask a problem, you wouldn't say glue has a dark side. Yes glue is can be toxic and extremely harmful, but it doesn't have any intentions or predispositions.

Don't get me wrong, I've had similar views in the past, it's just where I'm at now from my own life experience.

I agree that, being stoned every minute of the day is not a good idea, maybe you're trying to say cannabis is more toxic than people think?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#172

Post by subway »

lisivka wrote: post #147
Clubber wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge confirmation bias. You only hear about the horror stories, while people who are perfectly fine are afraid to admit so much, because of social stigmas and prejudices. Hell most companies require a drug screening as a condition of employment. People who smoke pot aren't going to come out and mention it at the water cooler for fear of retribution. I was talking with a co-worker about US laws in general a…

Yeah, we are hearing only horror stories about people walking on red signal, while majority of people are perfectly fine. It's time to legalize walking on red sign.

I think this is a great example. Walk on red -- just be aware of your surroundings and responsible for the outcome when you do.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#173

Post by ones_and_zeros »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

What if, what if, they were actually worse off with out marijuana?

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#174

Post by choko »

dietrichepp wrote: post #150
martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

Sounds a lot like World of Warcraft, the way you describe it. Maybe we should criminalize MMORPGs? That part is a bit of a bad joke, but I've known people who have lost chunks of their lives to WoW, and the criticisms you outline for cannabis seem to mirror my perception of WoW very closely—"addictive", "causes them to be extremely unmotivated", and "a lot of people end up really trapped by it". To be honest, when I…

Whoa there! I don't think the poster to which you responded said that marijuana should be criminalized, only that the risks are downplayed significantly by supporters of legalization.

As a user myself, I tend to agree. It can be very easy to go overboard if you aren't careful. For many people, weed can completely sap motivation if abused. The exact risks are really unknown though, since research into marijuana has been stifled for decades.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#175

Post by njloof »

metaphorm wrote: post #63
mtgx wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I hope that if it is legalized, it would at least be banned from advertising. The idea should be that "it's your choice if you want to use it, but people shouldn't be mass-brain washed by ads into believing it's the best thing ever that they should buy."

its legal to advertise pharmaceuticals. why should there be a special ban for advertising cannabis? if your objection is to "mass-brain washing", I think you're gonna have a lot of 1st amendment trouble arguing that case legally.

I have the same concern about the advertising of pharmaceuticals, both directly to consumers and especially to providers.

What were the arguments used to regulate the display and advertising of tobacco? Those might be a model for the advertising of other potentially harmful substances. Certainly how beer is advertised is no model to follow.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#176

Post by njloof »

metaphorm wrote: post #63
mtgx wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I hope that if it is legalized, it would at least be banned from advertising. The idea should be that "it's your choice if you want to use it, but people shouldn't be mass-brain washed by ads into believing it's the best thing ever that they should buy."

its legal to advertise pharmaceuticals. why should there be a special ban for advertising cannabis? if your objection is to "mass-brain washing", I think you're gonna have a lot of 1st amendment trouble arguing that case legally.

I have the same concern about the advertising of pharmaceuticals, both directly to consumers and especially to providers.

What were the arguments used to regulate the display and advertising of tobacco? Those might be a model for the advertising of other potentially harmful substances. Certainly how beer is advertised is no model to follow.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#177

Post by danharaj »

themartorana wrote: post #170
poof131 wrote: post #82

The DEA needs to go bye bye, and be replaced by the DRA, Drug Rehabilitation Agency. While I respect the risks operational agents take against crime syndicates, the war on drugs is a disaster. Even the government’s own RAND corporation concluded enforcement is far worse than rehabilitation, with rehab being 7 times more effective than policing, 400 times more effective then border interdiction, and 800 times more eff…

Good God, 7x, 400x, and 800x! How is continued marching down a ruinous path and destroying lives in the wake not entirely criminal, if not a massive human rights violation?

Because the people who enforce criminality and enforce human rights are the ones doing it.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#179

Post by intopieces »

martinald wrote: post #13

While I'm totally for drug (all drugs - not just cannabis) legalisation/regulation, I do think the "dangers" of marijuana have been really downplayed over the last few years. I know a lot of people at university who got into smoking it very often and basically lost 10+ years of their life to complete apathy to anything. Some have now stopped and are totally different people - just 10 years behind. While it doesn't ca…

They've been downplayed over the last few years to mitigate the outright lies that have been told to teenagers in their schools.

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between.

Re: Stop Treating Marijuana Like Heroin

#180

Post by pizza »

youngButEager wrote: post #162
superswordfish wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly do you know which of your tenants are using cannabis? Do you drug test your tenants? > You should not need to live in an altered state, intoxication, and if you are frequently choosing intoxication from pot as 'recreation', something is wrong. Your comment is ironic evidence for insobriety. Anger, stress and frustration are all palpable, and you may need some help to unwind. Hell, I could use a beer after…

Imagine showing vacant apartments to prospective renters since 1993 -- for 23 years. Lots of units, lots of prospective tenants. In 1993 I had no pool of 'before move-in/after move-in' experience with tenants. 23 years on, I have a large number of 'before move-in/after move-in' tenant experiences. So when a tenancy went bad, over time I started making a mental note of 1) the social cues the tenant made when I first m…

I may be younger than you have been renting out apartments for, but it seems to me that the first 3 cues in particular might not be that effective in discriminatory power?

1) I'm estimating memory lapse / brain fog etc in the general population is much more prevalent in non-pot-smokers for general reasons -- hell, depression affects something like 5-10% of Americans which iirc is many times over the fraction of people who would wake and bake prior their apt. showing. Yeah, memory problems are a strong signal when you know a specific person is blazed, but across the whole of the population this is going to be a filter with a really high false positive rate.

2) kinda seems like a proxy to their parents' wealth, maybe that matters to you but really should the equivalent of an SAT score really predict the ability for a tenant to keep to the contract?

3) there could be a couple of effects at play here. Kind of another proxy to parents' wealth. People might also put their guard up once they notice you sizing them up. But conveying professionalism as a game theoretic 'signaling' strategy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Cigarettes though? probably not a bad indicator. I think as a whole they probably do more damage to the building and other tenants, too.

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