At its core, the problem is that the DEA has a monetary incentive to seize cash, since it can keep the cash for its own use. What if that were no longer possible, and all money confiscated by government agencies are incinerated under external supervision, if cash, or sent to the monetary equivalent of /dev/null (buying 0% Treasury perpetuities, perhaps) if electronic.
DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
41–50 of 79 posts
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy for them to conclude, with no due process. They just say so, take the money, and leave you having to file suit and fight the government to get your own money back. Asset forfeiture is more of a travesty than money "laundering" being a crime is. The sicker part is that it's just admitting that their justice system is so broken that they wouldn't be able to get convictions against these "criminals" otherwise.
> Asset forfeiture is more of a travesty than money "laundering" being a crime is. I'm not sure why it's a travesty that it's illegal to conceal the source of illegally-earned money.
People here seem to be of the opinion that we have a system and process for prosecuting people suspected of crimes, and should use it rather than inventing a separate procedure with radically lower burden of proof and significantly less due process for the person involved.
In other words: if someone's suspected of money laundering, charge them with money laundering, convict them of it and then seize the money after the conviction is obtained.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#43There is no world where this practice could pass constitutional review. What they are doing is called out as unconstitutional in no less than three (!!!) different amendments. At this point in time, the supreme court should be buckling under the weight of requests to review this practice, and have it struck down as un-American. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons , houses, papers, and effects again…
> There is no world where this practice could pass constitutional review. And yet, civil asset forfeiture has been sanctioned by SCotUS. If we're ever going to change this kind of crap, indignation and, "But, but, but ... nuh-uh!" are not the places to start.
(Original poster, but my procrastination settings prevented me from responding)
Generally, SCotUS approval of civil forfeiture falls into two categories:
1) Assets involved in a crime you didn't commit (e.g. lending your car to someone who robs a bank and uses it as a getaway car).
2) Assets involved in a crime where there is no access to, or evidence of the owner (e.g. a pile of money found with a pile of drugs, or the home of a criminal who has fled the country)
The form of seizure mentioned in this article is quite clearly unconstitutional.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#44It is my sincere hope that in my lifetime a Whistle Blower cripples the DEA and exposes a profiteering, disturbing agenda that so many seem to sense is at the belligerent, Constitution-ignoring soul of the organization.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#45Law enforcement is the biggest and most dangerous gang in America.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#46The easy solution to this (from the perspective of the criminal) is to just move the money via a cryptocurrency (traded for cash privately) and it seems completely idiotic to me that this hasn't occurred yet, there is basically zero risk of LE compromise.
I'm also rather surprised that I'm the first person to even mention it here, since this is basically a solved problem.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok some cognitive dissonance here I see: If someone told you Brazilian police were taking people's cash you wouldn't for one second think there was some non self serving aspect to this. You wouldn't even look to see if there was any law supporting it. You would just dismiss it as corrupt police officers in a corrupt system, just like you should be doing in this case. Forgot for a moment that you recited that pledge e…
I'm not saying "hey, it's totally OK that they're doing this" or that it's not self-serving. What I'm saying is that these people are not exactly as sympathetic/blameless as some of the other asset forfeiture articles I've read.
not blameless when viewed in support of a victimless crime and flawed law riddled with conflicts of interest, discriminatory discretion, and self serving ends.
if you want a grand jury to find that the federal officers acted within agency guidelines, then great, you will continue to be able to sleep at night
if you want the supreme court to continue to find those laws constitutional, then great you will continue to sleep at night. Eugenics programs are constitutional and so politically unpopular that all 50 states have laws that nullify the practice.
The rest of us see this perverse practice for what is and would prefer if Congress modifies laws to instruct its agencies to stop the practice and stop funding themselves by taking citizen's money instead of preparing funding pitch decks for representatives which require oversight
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#48Note that the DEA is probably, in some cases, using information obtained by the NSA and shared with the DEA. See also: parallel construction, https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140203/11143926078/paral...
The war on drugs has wreaked havoc on our country by providing huge incentives for the criminally-minded to act as they do. And yes, I'm referring to all of the criminals involved.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#49The easy solution to this (from the perspective of the criminal) is to just move the money via a cryptocurrency (traded for cash privately) and it seems completely idiotic to me that this hasn't occurred yet, there is basically zero risk of LE compromise. I'm also rather surprised that I'm the first person to even mention it here, since this is basically a solved problem.
Is it that easy to trade $50,000 of a cryptocurrency for regular currency without leaving an ugly papertrail? I guess theoretically you can have a clean accomplice that does it for you on the regulated exchanges and hands you the cash, but I'm not sure how well that works for evading LE.
Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because "nor shall any person... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...". 5th Amendment to the Constitution. Unless you think "due process" == "Because I said so", it is both legally and morally a travesty.
Civil forfeiture has considerably more procedural protection than "because I said so"; which is not to say that certain applications of it are not deeply problematic, but hyperbole is not helpful in discussing them.
> Civil forfeiture has considerably more procedural protection than "because I said so"
Not really - the DEA, state and local police regularly steal cash and other belongings from US citizens without any probable cause.