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DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

usatoday.com

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Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#21

Post by mattnewton »

The most ridiculous part of these stories to me is that the ending was repeatedly "you got us, we can't prove this money is from illegal sources, but we're only returning part of it." It's like they are trying to return the minimum amount to make it no longer worth the victim's effort. Definitely doesn't inspire confidence that this done in good faith.

If this were an article USA today was writing about Mexico it probably would have just gone out and called it corruption. I am certainly convinced from these cases it is a massive abuse.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#22

Post by mindslight »

gohrt wrote: post #18
mindslight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of money is to be fungible. $1 is worth exactly the same as another $1. Inventing the crime of "money laundering" erodes the very concept of money by making its exchange value dependent on who you know and how politically connected they are. Furthermore, forcing people to structure their activities to be legible to the government is making everybody work as an informant against themselves.

That dollar is still worth a dollar after it it seized from the criminal who stole it. Same as any stolen property.

"Money laundering" and "stolen" are orthogonal. "Money laundering" is usually persecuted against someone suspected of doing legitimate business that the government doesn't like, and sometimes even against people who are simply pushing back against that FINCEN >$10k surveillance.

You can tell it's one of those specious "laws" that actually destroys the rule of law because it flips the script to guilty until proven innocent.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#23

Post by CelestialTeapot »

zeveb wrote: post #4

> Federal drug agents regularly mine Americans’ travel information to profile people who might be ferrying money for narcotics traffickers — though they almost never use what they learn to make arrests or build criminal cases. > Instead, that targeting has helped the Drug Enforcement Administration seize a small fortune in cash. So, they're basically the Sheriff of Nottingham, or the old Central European robber baron…

Yep, legalized theft. Civil forfeiture works to fleece the peasantry (and the criminals) equally. The DEA and police use this method to fund their organizations, because in most cases, they're allowed to keep most if not all of the money seized. That's an enormous conflict of interest that has caused many innocent people to get shafted by the government, as has been shown here (and elsewhere) in prior stories related to civil forfeiture.

TL;DR: Never travel with cash, gift cards, or cash cards.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#24

Post by a3n »

Roboprog wrote: post #16

So, anybody discussing decriminalizing drugs and proposing they are a medical issue instead can count on the fact that he/she is threatening the livelihood of both the dealers and the "enforcement" agency??? (and be appropriately wary)

Bingo.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#25

Post by wldcordeiro »

CelestialTeapot wrote: post #23
zeveb wrote: post #4

> Federal drug agents regularly mine Americans’ travel information to profile people who might be ferrying money for narcotics traffickers — though they almost never use what they learn to make arrests or build criminal cases. > Instead, that targeting has helped the Drug Enforcement Administration seize a small fortune in cash. So, they're basically the Sheriff of Nottingham, or the old Central European robber baron…

Yep, legalized theft. Civil forfeiture works to fleece the peasantry (and the criminals) equally. The DEA and police use this method to fund their organizations, because in most cases, they're allowed to keep most if not all of the money seized. That's an enormous conflict of interest that has caused many innocent people to get shafted by the government, as has been shown here (and elsewhere) in prior stories related…

I had an acquaintance that had the police seize $10k in cash from him after he had gotten in a car accident, along with bags of clothing he had bought at the mall. After court and everything the clothing was never reported and the $10k became $4k. It's not just money they'll take, it's anything of value they feel like.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#26

Post by MaysonL »

emodendroket wrote: post #13
cloudjacker wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok some cognitive dissonance here I see: If someone told you Brazilian police were taking people's cash you wouldn't for one second think there was some non self serving aspect to this. You wouldn't even look to see if there was any law supporting it. You would just dismiss it as corrupt police officers in a corrupt system, just like you should be doing in this case. Forgot for a moment that you recited that pledge e…

I'm not saying "hey, it's totally OK that they're doing this" or that it's not self-serving. What I'm saying is that these people are not exactly as sympathetic/blameless as some of the other asset forfeiture articles I've read.

So what? Drug dealers have constitutional rights too, and depriving them of their rights weakens your rights and my rights.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#29

Post by Retric »

wldcordeiro wrote: post #25
CelestialTeapot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, legalized theft. Civil forfeiture works to fleece the peasantry (and the criminals) equally. The DEA and police use this method to fund their organizations, because in most cases, they're allowed to keep most if not all of the money seized. That's an enormous conflict of interest that has caused many innocent people to get shafted by the government, as has been shown here (and elsewhere) in prior stories related…

I had an acquaintance that had the police seize $10k in cash from him after he had gotten in a car accident, along with bags of clothing he had bought at the mall. After court and everything the clothing was never reported and the $10k became $4k. It's not just money they'll take, it's anything of value they feel like.

Used to be people would wait a while, and then go and shoot people who did this. I can't decide if it's progress that people no longer consider this reasonable.

Re: DEA regularly mines Americans' travel records to seize millions in cash

#30

Post by Bartweiss »

mattnewton wrote: post #21

The most ridiculous part of these stories to me is that the ending was repeatedly "you got us, we can't prove this money is from illegal sources, but we're only returning part of it." It's like they are trying to return the minimum amount to make it no longer worth the victim's effort. Definitely doesn't inspire confidence that this done in good faith. If this were an article USA today was writing about Mexico it pro…

> The Justice Department agreed in May to return half the money, without explanation.

That's about the ugliest thing in the entire story. It makes total sense if you're trying to defuse legal proceedings by making them not worth the price, and no sense at all if you're trying to freeze money from drug traffickers.

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