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I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

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Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#261
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a teacher in high school once explain to us a side lesson on time management, she says she used moments of "downtime" in the school day to do grading and lesson planning so she almost never brought home work as a result. I took it to heart. It worked very, very well for me in college. I'd always have homework with me ready to go and when I was waiting for a class to start, or any other short time with nothing t…

I think the effectiveness of this strategy also depends on how well you can context switch. For some it is a lot easier than others.

I was bad at context switching too but if you really put your mind to it and put in the effort it can be learned. It does get easier with time. For people that it doesn't come naturally to (like me) it takes a lot of willpower to work like this but the payoff is huge.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#262
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this is true? You think the added risk of heart attack from software development is greater than the risk of death in construction? You think the rate of spine, eye, or hand injuries from typing all day is greater than the risk of bodily injury in construction? I find it difficult to find stats for this about software development, but 899 construction workers died on the job in 2014, and construction wor…

But don't you know that software developers are the best and most noble population in the world, bravely suffering for the good of humanity? I would love someone to try and complain about RSI to someone who's been a construction worker for 20 years. "But you get fresh air and exercise!" Ha! According to this source, 8.2% of construction workers have carpal tunnel: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4476336/…

Exactly.

Actual construction work == Moldy crawlspaces. Hot attics. Slippery roofs. Muddy trenches. Asbestos & fiberglass dust (yay for silicon fibrosis!). Lead paint. pneumatic paint sprayers, heavy equipment, nail guns, projection injuries, cuts/scrapes/falls/broken bones, temperature range extremes, noise (hearing loss), eye injury due to projectiles, etc. etc.

Run a belt sander for an hour. Numb hands for the next half hour. Or a jackhammer for "just" 15 minutes. makes Carpal tunnel seem tame.

Spend a year doing HVAC work bent over in crawlspaces. Or try working as a brick mason standing in a muddy ditch or climbing scaffolding with thousands of pounds of block and mortar. Or roofing. Or framing straddling a rafter. It's no health tonic.

My guess is that most desk jockeys would beg for the safety of an Aeron chair and a mouse after just one week.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of satsifaction to having a hands-on job and getting things done, being able to show actual achievements per day. However, it is TOUGH work aAnd I think all those aches and pains are the reason so many construction workers self-medicate with alcohol.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#263
post #109
post #56

I think it's mostly supply and demand, timing and where you live. But those are the factors we rarely talk about. Instead, people complain they are not compensated enough relative to the importance of their work, their intelligence, the hours put in, their title or the length of their education or the risk they take. If people were paid according to the importance of their jobs, I would argue that plumbers, sewage wo…

>I would argue that plumbers, sewage workers and farmers should be paid higher than programmers. Self-employed plumbers are paid higher than programmers. Every plumber I reached out to quoted $130/hr and they are all booked for weeks in advance.

A lot of self-employed consultant/freelance programmers charge that or more, and are booked for months (on the same project..)

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#264
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's truth here, but I also think programmers routinely underestimate the quality and compensation of other careers that they think are "below" them. For instance, you did it in this very post. Do you really think that all high school teachers are locked into making $40k for life? Here where I live (a large city, but also a pretty affordable one), teachers start at ~$55k in base salary, get a whole range o…

Annecdata: as a teacher in an inner city high school, I did not break past 50k/year for the three years I was there. That includes the summers I worked. Between grading, lesson planning, meetings, and teaching, my typical week day started before 7am, ended around 8pm or later. Typically most of my Saturday was used up and half my Sunday. Normally all of spring and winter break was used up likewise. I typically got cl…

[deleted]

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, no teacher I have ever known has stopped working at 3:20 PM. Grading and planning often go far into the evening.

Additionally, no teacher I have ever known has had the summer off. Summer is when they do catch-up work, lesson planning, etc., the technical debt payback of the teaching world. (source: three parents/step-parents were school teachers)

Alternatively, I have 3 teacher friends coming back from month long vacations right now.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, no teacher I have ever known has stopped working at 3:20 PM. Grading and planning often go far into the evening.

Actually according to http://transparentcalifornia.com/ my daughter's elementary school teacher makes around 130k in a public school.

That probably includes medical and pension.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#267
post #249
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Honestly what's wrong with just paying people a lot of cash? The context of the blog post is "startups". Startups without significant revenue don't have a lot of cash to pay high salaries. Another reason for stock compensation is to tap into the power of incentives. Hopefully, the potential equity upside attracts employees who think their work contributions can boost the value of the company (and hence their stock o…

So what if there is a lack of cash? Keep demanding more. If and when the cash comes, will your real salary increase? No! Of course not! You will be the last to know and this information asymmetry is the reason the rules are stacked against you, which is why you should never stop asking for more money . If the company tanks then so what? Not your problem, you're a developer. The premise of my argument is that the sepa…

>So what if there is a lack of cash? Keep demanding more.

That's fine, but you're changing the subtopic of your text that I was specifically responding to. You asked, "what's wrong with paying a lot of cash?"

What's wrong with it is that the fledgling startups do not have "lots of cash" to pay so playing dumb about why they aren't paying it is a non-productive conversation. Sure, as a future potential employee, demand all you want -- and renegotiate for higher salary next year -- or quit for a better job -- or start your own damn company -- or don't take the job at all. All that empowerment cheerleading is fine but it's from the perspective of the "employEE" so it's changing the subject. My answer was specifically explaining the perspective of the "startup employER" -- and that's who you had asked about.

>The premise of my argument is that the separation between the two groups you mentioned is so temporary that it doesn't even matter

It can take several years for startups to receive revenue and profitability and therefore, the recruiting mindset will favor one group vs the other over a long ramp up period. This hiring strategy is unavoidable when the startup does not have a lot of cash.

>whether you're a mercenary is not up to you, it's up to your employer.

Btw, I wasn't using "mercenary" in a derogatory manner. It's a label I often proudly wear and being fabulously compensated with cash never flipped a switch in my head from mercenary to loyal employee. I was mercenary to the bone.

Anyway, I make the distinction about mercenaries to highlight that some employees' incentives may not be aligned optimally for a cash-strapped startup. Therefore, perhaps the mercenary should restrict his criteria for employers to be the more mature companies who pay high market-rate salaries and very little in stock. That strategy seems more productive than wondering why Microsoft pays "lots of cash" but startup XYZ does not.

The blog was about startups and not companies like Microsoft/IBM.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, no teacher I have ever known has stopped working at 3:20 PM. Grading and planning often go far into the evening.

I had a teacher in high school once explain to us a side lesson on time management, she says she used moments of "downtime" in the school day to do grading and lesson planning so she almost never brought home work as a result. I took it to heart. It worked very, very well for me in college. I'd always have homework with me ready to go and when I was waiting for a class to start, or any other short time with nothing t…

I had a total of 3 hours a day on a bus to/from high school. I wish I could have done homework during that time!

But you know how spine-jarring school busses are. Maybe if I'd been able to complete it on a laptop instead of worksheets.

But nah, with how I was treated by folks on my bus, my laptop would've been tossed out the window the second day.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#269
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's truth here, but I also think programmers routinely underestimate the quality and compensation of other careers that they think are "below" them. For instance, you did it in this very post. Do you really think that all high school teachers are locked into making $40k for life? Here where I live (a large city, but also a pretty affordable one), teachers start at ~$55k in base salary, get a whole range o…

To be fair, no teacher I have ever known has stopped working at 3:20 PM. Grading and planning often go far into the evening.

Gym teachers don't need to grade papers. Planning probably doesn't take too long for them either.

Re: I Don’t Care How Well You Code, Understand Your Compensation

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask, are you a programmer? My guess is you are not. If you were you would understand the real physical strain and mental toll it takes to be good. If you want to excel, it is a never-ending battle to stay current and there is little to no reward for experience (even though it matters a great deal and must be accomplished on and off the clock). There is limited time to make money before you either burn out or ar…

Maybe in the Valley startup culture but I live very far from the Valley and that's not even close to my experience at all. What kind of "physical strain" does typing code result in? I seriously have one of the most flexible and lowest stress job than anyone I know.

Sitting in one position while making only minute movements and staring at a screen causes significant strain if you don't balance it out with exercise.
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