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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#101

Post by Hitard »

erikb wrote: post #79
dmichulke wrote: post #35

My take - the emperor is well educated and knows what's coming. Continuous tensions with China, printing money for some 35 years now (correct me if I'm wrong), a demography that's unsustainable, a treasury and stock market controlled by the central bank, ... 1920s/30s all over again with first a collapse of the yen and later on a war to distract the blame from the failed monetary policy and funnel the anger into some…

Haven't read much about Japan. But I'm quite sure that China is looking for someone to make a war with and they still have some grudges with Japan. If Japan on the other side is also heading in the direction of war there may really something happen. That's worrysome.

Nobody wants war in Asia. The question is how and at what rate the United States withdraws from its ultimately unsustainable position as pacific hegemon. China would like it to happen sooner. Most of the rest of Asia would like it to happen later, and to share more equitably in a post-american security coalition. To make that possible, Japan and South Korea may need to show more strategic solidarity in the short term.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#102

Post by anabis »

brandelune wrote: post #86

The buzz in Japan is not so much about the resignation itself but about the timing: exactly when Abe is strong enough to modify the constitution. It is said that the Emperor is trying to slow the constitutional change by first pressing a change that would allow him to resign.

I don't think that is the case.

http://www.usnews.com/news/entertainment/articles/2016-08-06...

> The quiet discussion reportedly started about five years ago, around the time he had health problems

This is before Abe became PM. From this, I think the people who don't want to change the constitution is using the Emperor politically.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#103

Post by [deleted] »

dorfsmay wrote: post #47
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

It doesn't matter. These days head of states in parliamentary systems don't do their jobs One of the best example for such a system is Bush lying and going to war in Iraq when the people didn't want it. The best example that it doesn't matter is Blair doing the same thing and Elisabeth 2 not doing anything about it.

[deleted]

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#104

Post by neximo64 »

Houshalter wrote: post #100
neximo64 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true? Lots of Europe decided to keep their monarchies, as does Australia, NZ and Canada. This leaves out the US which is not solely the definition of 'Western Culture' Also they don't tend to favour the upper class there's broad support across ideologies and social class that support them. In fact, the republican movements tend to come from upper classes, well true in New Zealand and Australia anyway (not sur…

They keep them in symbolic roles only. They have no real power. And even then there are movements to abolish them for consuming public tax dollars. Not every country had a violent or sudden change to democracy. But supporters of democracy still won in the West. Despite massive resistance at first. I mean that the monarchs themselves favor the upper class. They are, after all, members of it, and exposed mainly to thei…

Regarding 'no real power', This is often said but its not true. There have been occasions the monarchy have used their power but it goes largely unreported. One such occasion is 1975 in Australia where the government was thrown out using the monarch's power. The monarch hardly uses this power but it does if things go awry.

Also the 'consuming public tax dollars' argument is incorrect. The monarchy of the UK pays net tax-in through a deal the government did with monarchy 300 years ago (in short the UK government earns a tidy profit (about £300m/y) from the management of their estate in exchange for a small stipend each year, consistently renewed every period). The monarchs of other countries also have their estates that pay for them in a similar way (don't count Spain though)

Perhaps the monarchs favour the upper class though this has changed largely for the positive over the past hundred years. I would hardly say that today it is an unfair aristocracy, though.

On the democracy argument, there have been multiple referendums to put in place a republic but they don't go through.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#105

Post by frivoal »

keerthiko wrote: post #34
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Are you operating from the premise that a non-monarchy is strictly and uniformly superior? Or that figurehead monarchs are bad? With the former I beg to differ, having lived in the Middle East for a significant portion of my life. With the latter, well, maybe, it's a marginal cost to keep many traditionalists and culturally conservative members of a very proud people sated. Strangely (to me) people sing the praises o…

> Strangely (to me) people sing the praises of democracy and disparage their existing democratically elected government with the same breath.

There's nothing strange about that. The point of democracy is not to make governments great, it's to be able to throw them out when they suck. There's not contradiction in thinking that your government sucks and in being happy about your ability to throw them out.

> And most citizens of countries led by monarchs have far less to complain about governance (and not, as many keyboard pundits may guess, because of something crass like they'd get executed for voicing dissent).

There are plenty of terrible monarchs. And some good ones as well. Monarchy's problem isn't that it makes the ruler bad. It is that if the ruler is bad, there's not much you can do about it.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#106

Post by daemin »

celticninja wrote: post #72
twblalock wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging by the results of the last election, the Queen is probably more popular in Australia than any of the party leaders. But I suspect that Australia, and many other commonwealth countries, will vote to become republics after Prince Charles becomes king.

What if he skips it and William is crowned instead?

That would only occur if Prince Charles was dead.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#107

Post by afandian »

ajuc wrote: post #12
hrktb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see how it can sound ridiculous if we take "symbolic" into any other context. But in this case the symbolic part is a really big deal, just as the pope has a symbolic role that affects a ton of people.

Pope can actually make decisions with consequences.

They only have consequences because enough people imbue the symbol with significance.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#108

Post by guard-of-terra »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

I was in strict opposition to a concept of Monarchy, but not anymore.

In many countries constitutional monarchs are replaced by de-facto for-life Despots (think Putin and his partner Erdogan), for whom nobody could explain who they are (parents, relatives, children?), where we got them from and what happens when they expire. At least for a Monarch we knew all that with high amount of detail.

Who have no legitimacy whatsoever other than a bit of popular support, a lot of police state support and constant twisting of the law.

Nobility used to be public, now instead of having no nobility we have private nobility behind tall walls.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#109

Post by frivoal »

keerthiko wrote: post #34
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Are you operating from the premise that a non-monarchy is strictly and uniformly superior? Or that figurehead monarchs are bad? With the former I beg to differ, having lived in the Middle East for a significant portion of my life. With the latter, well, maybe, it's a marginal cost to keep many traditionalists and culturally conservative members of a very proud people sated. Strangely (to me) people sing the praises o…

> Are you operating from the premise that a non-monarchy is strictly and uniformly superior?

I do, from a moral point of view, before even going into the than a practical one (even though there are practical reasons as well). I believe that all people should be equal before the law, and that this is the point of the law: replace the arbitrary with the fair and predictable. All people. Not "all except this one family". Both the duties and the rights that royal families have make them unequal, mostly in ways that are favorable to them, but not only.

To take an example from the news item we are talking about, it is absurd that a person may denied from the right to quit his job, even if that job is being the Emperor. It certainly is a fancy job, but a job to which you are compelled by birth and may not leave does not match my conception of a free society, no matter how good the job is. And it certainly goes the other way as well, as royalty comes with its fair share of privileges that are not accessible to others.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#110

Post by msh »

twblalock wrote: post #64
dorfsmay wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. These days head of states in parliamentary systems don't do their jobs One of the best example for such a system is Bush lying and going to war in Iraq when the people didn't want it. The best example that it doesn't matter is Blair doing the same thing and Elisabeth 2 not doing anything about it.

Do you honestly believe that the Queen should have stepped in? That would have been totally undemocratic, and it would have undermined constitutional part of constitutional monarchy.

The Brits don't have a constitution or a constitutional monarchy.
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