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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#41

Post by Someone »

twblalock wrote: post #22
moogly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written. The situation in Japan is pre…

The cage may be golden, but it still is immoral to lock up a family in it.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#42

Post by [deleted] »

twblalock wrote: post #7
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

[deleted]

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#43

Post by 8note »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

is it the monarchy thats outdated though? or the idea of having a head of state?

Id say it's the head of state -- one person shouldnt have that much power, and the list is even longer! constitutional monarchs do pretty well though, in that they avoid using any of that power to the largest extent that they can.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#44

Post by afsina »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Albeit flawed, some sees monarchies as being superior to democracies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuL6T5Dc2LI

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#45

Post by pastProlog »

gioele wrote: post #26
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

> In some countries, like Germany and Italy, the head of state is an elected president, usually an fairly elderly politician. In Italy the only people elected by the citizens are the members of the Parliament. The head of the state is elected by the members of the parliament every 7 years. The head of the government is chosen ("invested") by the head of the state after a round of consultations with representatives of…

> All this complicated dance of indirect elections (that the current parties would like to remove) has been put in place after the WW2 to avoid too much power being in the hands of these high-profile figures or of a single party.

All of this was put in place after World War II to centralize power in the hands of the Christian Democrats, and force non-communist parties to go into coalition with them. As all prime ministers for a half century after WWII were either Christian Democrats or from those parties in coalition with them, it worked fairly well. Of course even this had bumps in the road so you have the 1948 elections which the communist/socialist coalition won but which was fixed the other way, a strategy of tension by P2 and the far right being blamed on the far left as the left makes electoral and other advances in the 1970s, plus you have Gladio and secret NATO armies in the wings in case the communists are actually elected into power. Of course being Italian, you know all of this.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#46

Post by ptaipale »

dmichulke wrote: post #35

My take - the emperor is well educated and knows what's coming. Continuous tensions with China, printing money for some 35 years now (correct me if I'm wrong), a demography that's unsustainable, a treasury and stock market controlled by the central bank, ... 1920s/30s all over again with first a collapse of the yen and later on a war to distract the blame from the failed monetary policy and funnel the anger into some…

I think I have a better explanation: he's 82 years old. If he's not in exceptionally good shape, the job of a formal head of state may be too much even in smooth times.

Japan has been printing money and economy has tanked for 35 years, but still life is good for the Japanese.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#47

Post by dorfsmay »

twblalock wrote: post #7
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

It doesn't matter. These days head of states in parliamentary systems don't do their jobs

One of the best example for such a system is Bush lying and going to war in Iraq when the people didn't want it. The best example that it doesn't matter is Blair doing the same thing and Elisabeth 2 not doing anything about it.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#48

Post by twblalock »

mehwoot wrote: post #32
moogly wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

Australia voted against the chance to replace its constitutional monarchy because of ambiguities and uncertainties about these questions. People know what they are getting with the existing systems and the constitutional monarchs have no real power. If you're changing that you have to be very careful.

Judging by the results of the last election, the Queen is probably more popular in Australia than any of the party leaders. But I suspect that Australia, and many other commonwealth countries, will vote to become republics after Prince Charles becomes king.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#49

Post by justusw »

lovart wrote: post #3

Does anyone know how much of the 2,700 year 'official genealogy' is credible?

Even better: There is even some Korean ancestry mixed into the genetic stew (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/dec/28/japan.worlddis...)

Luckily, the state-worship of the emperor as a descendant of Amaterasu and Jimmu has been abolished after Hirohito declined being divine after WWII. Maybe now is a good time to take this one step further and to abolish the monarchy once and for all?

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#50

Post by wtbob »

moogly wrote: post #16
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

> Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years.

And generally, one sees that it's been a mistake.

A constitutional monarch can be a good defense against certain types of democratic failure.

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