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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#61

Post by SyneRyder »

kogepathic wrote: post #37
gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

> while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. And as someone who isn't from the US, I find it incredibly bizarre that you haven't had a female leader yet. The UK has had 2 female Prime Ministers (1979-1990, 2016-), Canada has had 1 (1993), and Germany (2005-) to name a few. > I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend…

You can also add Australia (Julia Gillard, 2010 - 2013) and New Zealand (Helen Clark, 1999 - 2008) into that mix as well.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#62

Post by twblalock »

moogly wrote: post #52
twblalock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written. The situation in Japan is pre…

As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable. It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don…

It may be a terrible symbol, but it seems like people get over it, if they even care very much. Constitutional monarchies, such as the Nordic countries, are among the most egalitarian countries in the world. Japan is egalitarian, both in terms of how the Japanese view their society, and how the wealth is distributed -- they are very close to European countries in that respect, and far more egalitarian than the US.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#63

Post by smcl »

stuaxo wrote: post #33

Then maybe Britains Queen could resign, she looks like she's eaten a wasp whenever she appears in public or on TV.

I'm not a fan of the monarchy by any stretch of the imagination, but "the old lady looks bad" is not really a particularly persuasive argument

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#64

Post by twblalock »

dorfsmay wrote: post #47
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

It doesn't matter. These days head of states in parliamentary systems don't do their jobs One of the best example for such a system is Bush lying and going to war in Iraq when the people didn't want it. The best example that it doesn't matter is Blair doing the same thing and Elisabeth 2 not doing anything about it.

Do you honestly believe that the Queen should have stepped in? That would have been totally undemocratic, and it would have undermined constitutional part of constitutional monarchy.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#65

Post by twblalock »

moogly wrote: post #57
mehwoot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia voted against the chance to replace its constitutional monarchy because of ambiguities and uncertainties about these questions. People know what they are getting with the existing systems and the constitutional monarchs have no real power. If you're changing that you have to be very careful.

Maybe I am cynical but are you sure they didn't vote against it because they like "traditions", pretty parades and hand-waving and think princes and princesses are quaint and fun and secretly in their hearts they wish they could be one? I do live in a 1000-year-old constitutional monarchy after all and that's the pro arguments I tend to hear. "Good for tourism" is another one.

> "Good for tourism" is another one.

Nobody goes to Australia to see the Queen.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#66

Post by twblalock »

hristov wrote: post #53

One interesting factoid that the new york times did not mention is that while it was common for emperors to resign before the meiji restoration, a lot of those resignations probably were not voluntary. The Japanese emperors are the longest reigning royal dynasty in the world, having reigned for the entire known history of the nation. But perhaps heir secret is that they did not have much power most of the time. Durin…

The modern imperial household law was introduced in the late 19th century, in order to emulate similar laws in Europe. It was amended after WWII, but law regarding abdication/resignation was left unchanged.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#67

Post by aaronbrethorst »

ptaipale wrote: post #56
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it bizarre that the United States only just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for President while Sri Lanka named its first female Prime Minister almost 60 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirimavo_Bandaranaike Or the UK almost 40 years ago. Or Germany 11 years ago. :)

I don't find it so bizarre. The emergence of women to major political roles is a thing of the past 1-2 generations in almost all of the world (with the exception of some monarchs). (I guess it would be almost safe to count Benazir Bhutto, Prime Minister of Pakistan in 1988-90 and 93-96, as a monarch...)

> I don't find it so bizarre

Women have made up 50% of the population of Homo Sapiens for the entire age of our species. Literally for hundreds of thousands to millions of years. And it is literally in our lifetimes (give or take maybe 30 years) that the first woman is made the elected leader of a country?

I wrote my reply with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, but when you get right down to it, it is phenomenally unlikely that we live at such a moment of change.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#68

Post by cmdkeen »

moogly wrote: post #52
twblalock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written. The situation in Japan is pre…

As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable. It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don…

Except stability can be used to breed stability. France being on the Fifth Republic makes it considerably easier to argue for a Sixth Republic, and with Marine Le Pen doing rather well in the polls that isn't necessarily a good idea. Traditions have their place in that they become ingrained within the populace and considerably harder to shift.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#69

Post by timwaagh »

They should let him step down. They should have changed that law ages ago. Japans politicians should be ashamed they did not. Whether or not Japan wants to be a constitutional monarchy or not is of course their matter. But if you consider what is happening right now in Turkey and Russia, the argument against constitutional monarchy seems really thin.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#70

Post by moogly »

twblalock wrote: post #62
moogly wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you yourself say, the situation in Japan is pretty stable. The events in France you mention was during wartime, in the lead-up to what could be called "colonial collapse". Hardly comparable. It matters because a hereditary head of state position (actually, any governmental/establishmentarian position) is a terrible symbol in what should be an egalitarian society, no matter if you have political power or not. I don…

It may be a terrible symbol, but it seems like people get over it, if they even care very much. Constitutional monarchies, such as the Nordic countries, are among the most egalitarian countries in the world. Japan is egalitarian, both in terms of how the Japanese view their society, and how the wealth is distributed -- they are very close to European countries in that respect, and far more egalitarian than the US.

Yes, I'm from Sweden. I consider "our" monarchy to be a ignominious wart, ceremonial or not. We should always strive to improve society.
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