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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#21

Post by gfodor »

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president.

edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless role for a woman in any part of the world when (arguably) the most powerful political position that exists today has a female candidate. One would think that if the latter is true the former could not be.

edit 2: Oh, I think I get it. Posters are assuming I'm American and am boasting about how progressive my country is. Huh. Nope, that wasn't what I was doing. (Though I am American, and not voting for either mainstream candidate.)

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#22

Post by twblalock »

moogly wrote: post #16
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring. As you say, in some c…

On the other hand, consider the example of France. The fourth republic had a symbolic president, and the fifth republic has a very powerful president, because DeGaulle demanded executive power as a condition of assuming the presidency during the Algerian crisis of the late 1950s. That's why the fourth republic ended and the fifth republic began -- DeGaulle had a new constitution written.

The situation in Japan is pretty stable. Why mess with success? And if the emperor has no power, why does it matter if the position is hereditary?

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#23

Post by sspiff »

gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

The president of the united states is arguably also a powerless, symbolic role.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#24

Post by twblalock »

Jach wrote: post #19
oldbuzzard wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Most of these are explicitly apolitical The monarchy didn't help with Brexit. I suppose it could help broker coalition governments in a parlimentary systems... though Thailand certainly shows how overly broad lese majeste laws and and strong military can have the opposite effect at least with regards to national unity.

Has the Queen even spoken about whether she approves of Brexit or not?

Not publicly, and she never would. If she took sides in political arguments, she would undermine the justifications for the existence of the monarchy.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#25

Post by gozur88 »

sspiff wrote: post #23
gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

The president of the united states is arguably also a powerless, symbolic role.

No it isn't. The president of the US has a lot of power. More than the framers of the government allotted to the office.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#26

Post by gioele »

twblalock wrote: post #7
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

> In some countries, like Germany and Italy, the head of state is an elected president, usually an fairly elderly politician.

In Italy the only people elected by the citizens are the members of the Parliament.

The head of the state is elected by the members of the parliament every 7 years.

The head of the government is chosen ("invested") by the head of the state after a round of consultations with representatives of the political parties after the parliamentary election (basically the president asks "guys, who would you like as your own leader?"). The appointment of the head of the government is then approved (or, often, refused) by a parliamentary vote.

It was customary (before Berlusconi's times) for the winning party to elect its own representative as the head of the higher chamber. At the same time the losing party would get to elect the head of the lower chamber. (Yes, "lame duck" by design.)

All this complicated dance of indirect elections (that the current parties would like to remove) has been put in place after the WW2 to avoid too much power being in the hands of these high-profile figures or of a single party. "You have not been elected. We, the parliament are those who reign here." The head of the state cannot even address the parliament or get physically near the discussion hall without a written request from the MPs.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#27

Post by aaronbrethorst »

gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

I find it bizarre that the United States only just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for President while Sri Lanka named its first female Prime Minister almost 60 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirimavo_Bandaranaike

Or the UK almost 40 years ago.

Or Germany 11 years ago.

:)

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#28

Post by twblalock »

gfodor wrote: post #21

I find it bizarre that Japan is having an contentious debate about if it's appropriate for a woman to ascend to a completely powerless role while the US just nominated its first (viable) female candidate for president. edit: Wow, apparently this is an offensive comment. I'm having a hard time twisting my brain to see how, but my point was simply that the it seems odd that there would be contention over a powerless ro…

This whole thing is a result of imperial household laws passed in the late 19th century, to imitate similar laws in Europe. Before then, many emperors retired before they died, and there were several woman emperors.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#29

Post by moogly »

Hitard wrote: post #11
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The reason these nominal monarchies remain has nothing to do with the monarchs' unwillingness to let go, and everything to do with the useful diversion of royal celebrity. Oh, some of the european royals have said good things about the environment and peace and the need for civil society, and the japanese emperor notably rebuked the right wing for its jingoistic understanding of "patriotism" a few years back, but let…

I agree. The "deal" I speak of here is purely symbolic.

However, I'm sure if you asked all the royalty across the world, I am certain that almost every single one of them wants to remain royalty and find the very institution quaint and traditional and wholesome. Do you think Akihito does not want his son to succeed him?

If the monarch him-/herself suggests that maybe it's time we rethought the whole thing, I'm hopeful that would get people talking about it a bit more. Maybe that could end up being the true power held by the office?

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#30

Post by geuis »

ajuc wrote: post #12
hrktb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see how it can sound ridiculous if we take "symbolic" into any other context. But in this case the symbolic part is a really big deal, just as the pope has a symbolic role that affects a ton of people.

Pope can actually make decisions with consequences.

There is a big difference though. The power of the Pope has been restricted over a period of centuries. The power of the Emperor of Japan has only been restricted for about 70 years.

At this point, neither party can really "make decisions with consequence", especially the Pope. They can mutually make declarations, and people may or may not respond to them. In that regard, they are as equally weak as all of the various monarchies of Europe and Southeast Asia.

However, Japan is fairly unique in this set of players. They have a highly homogenized population and culture. The changes to their cultural leadership are only 70 years old.

When I visited there in 2010, I left with a feeling that I visited a sleeping country/culture that was literally missing some polarizing goal to reignite it. That doesn't necessarily mean warlike, but it does mean ambitious.

Don't be quick to think of Japan as some tamed tiger or lion. It definitely is not.

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