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Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

nytimes.com

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Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#11

Post by Hitard »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The reason these nominal monarchies remain has nothing to do with the monarchs' unwillingness to let go, and everything to do with the useful diversion of royal celebrity. Oh, some of the european royals have said good things about the environment and peace and the need for civil society, and the japanese emperor notably rebuked the right wing for its jingoistic understanding of "patriotism" a few years back, but let's be clear that it's their usefulness to the establishment that preserves them, not their own clever designs on power.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#12

Post by ajuc »

hrktb wrote: post #8
caminante wrote: post #2

“I am concerned that it will become more and more difficult for me to fulfill my duties as a symbolic emperor” This sounds like the opening or the punchline for a Dilbert strip!

I see how it can sound ridiculous if we take "symbolic" into any other context. But in this case the symbolic part is a really big deal, just as the pope has a symbolic role that affects a ton of people.

Pope can actually make decisions with consequences.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#13

Post by BurningFrog »

twblalock wrote: post #5
lovart wrote: post #3

Does anyone know how much of the 2,700 year 'official genealogy' is credible?

Not a lot of it. Before the 6th century AD, things get very murky, and belong more to the discipline of archaeology than to history. Aside from some nutty right-wingers, the Japanese are not under any illusions about this.

That's still 1500 years.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#14

Post by BurningFrog »

moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Good theoretical argument.

Empirically, constitutional monarchies probably do better than the more moded and congruent systems.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#15

Post by paol »

hrktb wrote: post #8
caminante wrote: post #2

“I am concerned that it will become more and more difficult for me to fulfill my duties as a symbolic emperor” This sounds like the opening or the punchline for a Dilbert strip!

I see how it can sound ridiculous if we take "symbolic" into any other context. But in this case the symbolic part is a really big deal, just as the pope has a symbolic role that affects a ton of people.

Not a very good parallel. The pope has real power in a large organization with genuine real world influence. (Not nearly as much influence as it used to have, but still.)

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#16

Post by moogly »

twblalock wrote: post #7
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

The problem with replacing constitutional monarchs is that they know their place, but the heads of state who would replace them might not. After all, they are likely to be elected, and could therefore have a viable claim to legitimacy in the exercise of their prerogatives. The Japanese emperor has no political power, and really doesn't cost the country that much to keep around. Remember that in parliamentary systems,…

Plenty of nations have successfully abolished constitutional monarchy in the past couple of hundred years. The role and political power of the head of state (be it Prime Minister/Chancellor or President, or a combination — doesn't matter) should be well-defined in the constutition (which of course needs changing). I don't really see any loopholes here... I find that argument to be a red herring.

As you say, in some countries, the official (purely symbolic) head of state has no real power (pointless in other words). That's OK-ish. I'd rather not have a symbolic president. But the main point is to not make the position hereditary.

Germany's president, whilst largely ceremonial, actually has some (residual) power by the way, but it's a 5-year term. Not elected by the people, however, which is a shame. For example, Finland's president is.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#17

Post by oldbuzzard »

systemtest wrote: post #9
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Nothing wrong with a constitutional monarchy. You get all the benefits from democratically chosen representatives without the downside of the 4-year moodswings. The monarch will always choose what is best for the country instead of what is best for the currently ruling party. It looks at long-term vision instead of just the 4-year term. It takes care of continuity instead of the "this will not be my problem in 6 mont…

How so? Most of these are explicitly apolitical

The monarchy didn't help with Brexit. I suppose it could help broker coalition governments in a parlimentary systems... though Thailand certainly shows how overly broad lese majeste laws and and strong military can have the opposite effect at least with regards to national unity.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#18

Post by twblalock »

BurningFrog wrote: post #13
twblalock wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lot of it. Before the 6th century AD, things get very murky, and belong more to the discipline of archaeology than to history. Aside from some nutty right-wingers, the Japanese are not under any illusions about this.

That's still 1500 years.

It is very long. It gets a little bit murky in the 1300s because there were rival claimants to the throne, but they were all related to each other. It's very likely that the dynasty has been in the same family since the 6th century. Some historians think some of the early emperors might have been unrelated to their predecessors, but even those emperors reigned during or before the 6th century.

The throne was not always passed from father to son, but sometimes among close relatives, which means that an emperors lack of children was not a problem for the continuation of the dynasty. Furthermore, emperors have been figureheads for most of Japanese history, so there was no significant benefit to usurping the throne as there was in Europe. People who wanted to control the country wanted to be the emperor's advisers, and later the shogun.

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#19

Post by Jach »

oldbuzzard wrote: post #17
systemtest wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with a constitutional monarchy. You get all the benefits from democratically chosen representatives without the downside of the 4-year moodswings. The monarch will always choose what is best for the country instead of what is best for the currently ruling party. It looks at long-term vision instead of just the 4-year term. It takes care of continuity instead of the "this will not be my problem in 6 mont…

How so? Most of these are explicitly apolitical The monarchy didn't help with Brexit. I suppose it could help broker coalition governments in a parlimentary systems... though Thailand certainly shows how overly broad lese majeste laws and and strong military can have the opposite effect at least with regards to national unity.

Has the Queen even spoken about whether she approves of Brexit or not?

Re: Emperor Akihito of Japan Raises Possibility of Leaving Throne

#20

Post by satori99 »

systemtest wrote: post #9
moogly wrote: post #4

I propose a deal: Let the man rest in exchange for the abolishment of the constitutional monarchy. Symbolic or not, it's outmoded and incongruent with modern egalitarian society. The list of constitutional monarchies is rather embarrassingly long (37 countries).

Nothing wrong with a constitutional monarchy. You get all the benefits from democratically chosen representatives without the downside of the 4-year moodswings. The monarch will always choose what is best for the country instead of what is best for the currently ruling party. It looks at long-term vision instead of just the 4-year term. It takes care of continuity instead of the "this will not be my problem in 6 mont…

I live in a constitutional monarchy. But my Queen and her family don't even live in my country, and she is rather more attached to the one she does live in.

I'm sure she chooses what is "best for the country", but it's not always clear which country that may mean.

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