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Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

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Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#181
post #27
post #2

Great idea! The only puzzling point is the 10 km/h limit. In my experience it's almost impossible to go that slow. Better to set the limit at 20 km/h and cope with the conditions of the road. It will be slow for bicycles too. It forces bikers to go on the roads for cars or be very patient. Maybe it's the intended effect but I don't approve it.

IMO, they are better off with raised or lowered pedestrian walkways vs removing streets, but this is more about aesthetics than practicality. As to bikes, they should be on the road anyway.

One of the reasons they do this is to fight pollution. Your solution doesn't have the benefit of reducing traffic in an area?

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#182

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

>I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). And you have the experience of using transit on what's generally considered a Top-5 system nationally! The transit experience elsewhere is often significantly worse than yours. We have "urbanists" here…

I spent a week in Berlin recently. The transit system is so good I had no desire to use a car, and I traveled around the city to see the sights.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#183

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

It sounds like you still live in suburbia. I can bike or walk to local stores in 5-10m and since my job is down town, getting to city target, cvs or whatever is another 5-10 minute work errand. I have a car but use it so infrequently that I might as well sell it. Uber covers the other gaps and is significantly cheaper if you think about the TOC of a car.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#184
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good luck getting an ambulance into the middle of one of those on a crowded Saturday night. Crowded?

engrish?

I'm sorry, I'm not fortunate enough to be a native English speaker or having formal English learning?

But I though that a simple word was enough to be understood.

I'll do my best, why do you say the streets would be crowded?

Next time, you can save your insult and think that not everybody is an English speaker.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take cars off the roads, people will rebuild (well, reorganize) their cities to account for it. Public transit obviously needs to be better pretty much everywhere in the US, but people also don't want to pay to make it better. I'm a proponent of simply wiping out parking in most areas. That will incentivize people not to drive, therefore to walk/transit, therefore to value the transit systems and the design of…

Great if you live in a large city. How about a small town of 10,000 people? How about rural? How about people who commute? Vacationers? Those wanting to leave on vacation? It's easy to think in a bubble when you have relatively infinite resources at your disposal. However, the majority of people in the U.S do not.

> the majority of people in the US do not

Actually, the most populous 48 urbanized areas in the country constitute over 50% of people. Let's continue to design our cities such that you can't live in them without a $8000/year recurring cost (average cost of car ownership). That will certainly help the people who don't have relatively infinite resources at their disposal.

My comment was also specifically referring to cities. I guess people in less car friendly countries are just totally incapable of vacation or employment eh? Who'd've thunk.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#186
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please give examples.

Uber actually shows up, most cab companies I have used don't. Uber cars are cleaner and have working air conditioning / heat If you have a problem you just give the trip a bad review and someone follows up and actually does something about it (typically a refund) You get emailed a receipt with everything you need to get reimbursed by your company instead of handed a blank card that you have to fill out yourself and h…

That's not the requested example of breaking 'corrupt local monopolies'...

And also to point out that the main effect of uber is to shift responsibility to drivers and government. Replace licenced, trained and properly contracted drivers (paying retirement and health insurance payments) and fully maintained and insured cars with untrained, uninsured and precariously 'employed' drivers, which gain no long term safety for sickness and retirement and use their own cars which may or may not be well maintained, and where they bear the complete business costs and responsibilities.

It's fully and completely exploitative, that's why it's cheaper.

For the user experience much works better, that doesn't make it a good company and certainly not healthy. The cost you save you'll pay back in taxes that have to cover drivers that fall into poverty, or when you have an accident and find your driver was not properly insured. YMMV depending on city and country, but the exploitation of the 'sharing economy' is just painfully obvious and it's your personal choice to support this.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber actually shows up, most cab companies I have used don't. Uber cars are cleaner and have working air conditioning / heat If you have a problem you just give the trip a bad review and someone follows up and actually does something about it (typically a refund) You get emailed a receipt with everything you need to get reimbursed by your company instead of handed a blank card that you have to fill out yourself and h…

That's not the requested example of breaking 'corrupt local monopolies'... And also to point out that the main effect of uber is to shift responsibility to drivers and government. Replace licenced, trained and properly contracted drivers (paying retirement and health insurance payments) and fully maintained and insured cars with untrained, uninsured and precariously 'employed' drivers, which gain no long term safety…

Oh no but he can pay with the credit card. Sad how we trade in others' lives and economical morals so easily for such little conveniences. Thanks for your response that are thoughts that I share.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#188
post #127

This article covers things from a pedestrian's perspective, but it honestly looks like there may be benefits for drivers in this system too. For one, this plan immediately halves the number of busy intersections along a given stretch of road (and reduces them to a third if multiple superblocks are built adjacent to one another). Yes, no intersections have been physically removed, but the number of vehicles using thos…

The article asserts many things about the city.

I don't bring my Mum to Barcelona by a few reasons, and one of them is that she could be unable to cross most roads, as a pedestrian, on time for the traffic light.

Of course that's one of the smallest problems, delinquency being the main one (attracted more in this months by the tourism).

Also people is uncivil with old persons here, the locals and the tourists.

Walking on bike in the sidewalk thinking you have preference over pedestrians also is common here. I've see many fights start by this.

The traffic? for me it's all day car horns. Without any good reason. Always just for the sake of the mass hysteria.

Stressed drivers pushing pedestrians to finish the cross. The same when walking, people push you for the space, even if they are just slow walking and doing shopping and you go clearly to work.

All those theories about traffic are nice. The article tries to make it even more nice asserting stuff.

I don't want my childs to grow up in barcelona, and I don't want my mum to live alone in this city like she can do in others.

I have attended and helped enough persons who had been stolen, kicked, violated, run overs, and what not in just two years.

I cannot take a single beer, without watch traffic problems in Barcelona. And I'm talking of a two channels street, where the main traffic mass, can vary from 5 to 9 cars in the same direction.

Oh you are the owner of this car? a bus just did break all the side of your car, he did go away without stopping. Take man, I did a photo, you can see the car number. This was yesterday.

Traffic is better than Madrid. But still is a "bad thing" for the quality of life of the city. Also in barcelona you need air conditioner, or sleep with the windows open... this is... all night long and in the main hours, old, big, vibrating and poorly driven trucks and buses all around. stopping with squeaky brakes, in each of those corners, and starting again with the engine noise that could not pass a decibel measurement by police.

It mixes with the drunken people and nightly prostitution noise... so at the end, the harley/truck/whatever is just one more noise in the Barcelona's non-stopping symphony.

Squared streets and all that, bike accidents are common here, bike Vs pedestrian problems too. Old people and children cannot walk alone even in relaxed areas. And the traffic (for me that don't own vehicles) and the air pollution is one of the worse things when I try to "live" here.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#189
I just got back from Barcelona, and was surprised by the level of air pollution. The smog never disappears, even after a heavy rain. I learned that Barcelona has never met EU minimum air quality standards since they were established 22 years ago. And all cars and trucks run on diesel. If I were planning their transportation future, I'd be looking to be the earliest adopter of electric transport in Europe. Super blocks appeal to me, but they don't address the air quality issue directly enough to really excite me.

Re: Superblocks: how Barcelona is taking city streets back from cars

#190

I feel compelled to dissent against initiatives to directly take cars off the road, rather than improve alternatives. Growing up in the suburbs without a car, I was really excited about carless urban life. Then I actually experienced it (Hyde Park, Chicago). I'm on the opposite corner of the neighborhood from the business districts, so a little errand like CVS or the grocery store is around half an hour by foot each…

If you take cars off the roads, people will rebuild (well, reorganize) their cities to account for it. Public transit obviously needs to be better pretty much everywhere in the US, but people also don't want to pay to make it better. I'm a proponent of simply wiping out parking in most areas. That will incentivize people not to drive, therefore to walk/transit, therefore to value the transit systems and the design of…

I live in a small town in France and in the villages, there is often zero parking. The effect on the village? Less economic activity than the ones that have parking. Just eliminating parking does solve a problem, but it creates another problem as people seek convenient alternatives. Taking 3 toddlers with strollers on public transport to go grocery shopping isn't as easy as some single guy jumping on the train to go get a beer. How does one transport things back to their house? Using only public transport means that you can only buy what you can easily carry.

Public transport makes it really difficult to carry any amount of cargo. Ever tried to bring grocery bags into the subway in NYC during rush hour? It's impossible. Now do that with a kid. Now do all that and end up at one of the majority of stations without elevators. No matter how 'good' NYC's public transport it, it still sucks if you are in a wheelchair, with small children, carrying any amount of cargo and traveling at anytime other than 12am.

Public transport has its place, but to suggest a car-free world is madness -- unless we have cargo carrying robots bringing stuff to our doors.

I will say Zurich does a good job -- their trains are super easy to board, they are spacious and uncrowded. The platforms are wide and easy to navigate and have no stairs. Still, even that doesn't solve the problem of cargo. One could use Amazon, but that requires a truck to deliver things, which requires roads and unloading zones.

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