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The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

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Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#111

Post by na85 »

satysin wrote: post #41
Mahn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a shame. I mean, I get the concern, but full Android compatibility would have done wonders to adoption, which is what their phone platform desperately needs. They could have always lured developers later with a substantially better UWP on top of it.

I don't believe it would drive adoption at all. Microsoft know Windows Phone today is dead. However they still have the desktop and with UWP they hope to bridge the development gap between mobile/tablet/desktop/laptop. Had they shipped Astoria in Windows 10 to allow Android apps to "just work" it would have destroyed their UWP strategy. So they might get a few more Windows Phone users but they would have lost control…

Isn't WP already dead? I've never met a single person using one.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#112

Post by tracker1 »

grennis wrote: post #101
tracker1 wrote: post #42

I can't help but think this is all towards an end which is Docker containers running on Azure's core infrastructure. Having the tooling show up earlier in Windows 10 as it's being flushed out is just a really nice bonus. I've been mostly using bash in windows (installed with git tooling) for a couple years now.

That is not Bash on Windows, it's a totally different thing.

I know it's not bash for windows... I was just making a side comment that I already have been using bash...

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#113

Post by kartickv »

satysin wrote: post #27
vvanders wrote: post #7

Fun tidbit is it seems the original reason behind this was Android support in WinPhone10 but when that was axed they migrated it to Ubuntu on desktop. If true that's a pretty nifty pivot.

Indeed, and the rumours are that Project Astoria worked too well which scared Microsoft. If Android apps "just worked" on Windows then why would developers bother using their new Universal Windows Platform.

Besides, Astoria will lead to a second-rate UX for Windows Phone (WP) as Android apps on WP are coded as per Android UX guidelines, not WP UX guidelines.

If Microsoft is building a framework, I'd expect it to provide a great UX for their users.

If a compatibility layer is required, it would be better for MS users to have it in the reverse direction, to let WP apps run on Android, and use that to try to convince devs to build WP apps.

In summary, it never made sense for MS to provide WP users (their own platform!) with a second-rate UX.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#114

Post by witty_username »

rodgerd wrote: post #102
fapjacks wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it, though? I use four monitors with Linux Mint at work while my laptop is docked. The 'Optimus' dual-GPU thing works out of the box. But I have a Windows 10 gaming rig at home for Star Citizen, and when I installed Windows, it didn't recognize the onboard NIC or the AMD 9790 GPU with default drivers. And as it just so happens, late last night, this same Windows 10 box mysteriously lost network functionality, an…

> Does it, though? Unless you live in a very special bubble, yes.

My desktop, my brother's laptop, and a printer work well with Linux, perhaps because they aren't high-end.

On the other hand my mother's friend had a mysterious driver problem (screen glitching) with his NVidia card after upgrading to Windows 10.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#115

Post by Gaelan »

PeterisP wrote: post #87
fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

I absolutely need full Excel&Word compatibility for collaborating on documents with others so Linux is not an option. Neither LibreOffice or MS Office Online provide appropriate compatibility, editing a complex document made by someone else and sending back to them will not preserve its formatting. This means either MacOS with the associated hardware lock-in or Windows with all the associated problems in installing/c…

> MacOS with the associated hardware lock-in

Macs will run both Windows and (with some EFI hacking) Linux. It's true that you need a Mac to (legally) run macOS, but that's lock-out, not lock-in. Essentially it is a $1000 license to the OS and perpetual updates.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#116

Post by JustSomeNobody »

eddieh wrote: post #100
fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

> people talk about Visual Studio being a great IDE I think this is just something people regurgitate often and believe without evidence. I've used the IDE and it is terrible – probably one of the worst. Last I checked it couldn't open multiple windows for certain file types. Its interface looks like a web IDE. It hangs while it scans your project to provide IntelliSense, which IntellieSense itself is crazy annoying.…

It used to be good. Then WPF happened.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#117

Post by JustSomeNobody »

willtim wrote: post #68
fapjacks wrote: post #63

Honest question: What's the deal with this stuff? I'm not interested in the reasoning that it's done just because they can do it. I mean... Why not just ... use Linux ? I suspect it's a comfort zone thing, and most people really don't want to move out of their comfort zone (and especially programmers have a hard time admitting this). I understand people developing for the platform, but I don't understand people devel…

Unfortunately Windows has much better hardware support (e.g. Skylake laptops, multi monitors via displayport MST).

Except when it forgets that you have said hardware installed.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#118

Post by frik »

satysin wrote: post #27
vvanders wrote: post #7

Fun tidbit is it seems the original reason behind this was Android support in WinPhone10 but when that was axed they migrated it to Ubuntu on desktop. If true that's a pretty nifty pivot.

Indeed, and the rumours are that Project Astoria worked too well which scared Microsoft. If Android apps "just worked" on Windows then why would developers bother using their new Universal Windows Platform.

Companies focus on iOS and Android on mobile and Win32 and macOS, sometimes Linux, and many apps are nowadays web apps. Look at the Windows store, for years it is a wasteland with just a few good apps and lots of junk. WinRT/UniversalRT has too many downsides and no major benefits compared to Win32. Even PC gamers prefer Steam with normal Win32 games and are better of with sticking to it. WinStore is a trainwreck. Their WinPhone10 already failed spectacularly with decreasing smartphone OS market share of around 1% world wide. I can imagine that Microsoft might improve the Win32 touch support (a UI theme with larger buttons) and add Win32 support to their mobile next Win mobile OS. Running (legacy) Win32 apps would certainly on mobile would be huge for enterprise customers. Attaching a phone to a monitor and place a Bluetooth keyboard in front and you would have a full PC that you can carry around in your pocket. Whereas their current continuum desktop is just a bad joke and doesn't fulfil the vision at all (just a desktop background where only Office works no other third party PC applications)!

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#119

Post by rwmj »

microtonal wrote: post #109
corndoge wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- solved by any launcher - solved by any launcher - cannot comment - gmaps handles this automatically - cannot comment - baked into android since L - gdrive Nearly usability and UI struggles are easily solved with a custom launcher.

- solved by any launcher - solved by any launcher Then you have never used Windows Phone. None of the Android launchers provides the equivalent of WP tiles with the same amount of integration. There is no API that launchers could use to pull out the same amount/types of information. - gmaps handles this automatically Nonsense. It does some prefetching, but if you are in another country (no data) and you go slightly o…

You should probably look at OSM (eg. OSMAnd, but there are others). I just download the whole country map before I visit somewhere.

Re: The Linux kernel hidden inside Windows 10

#120

Post by frik »

jimsparkman wrote: post #58

So far, this has been fantastic. Our team has been seriously considering converting from Windows to Linux for embedded development. (we run Linux VM when needed) Up and running and cross compiling for ARM without issue. Really surprised how it has just worked so far. This came at a great time for us.

So far it's been very bad for us. The always-on telemetry in Win10 draws a big question mark if we can depend on Windows in future. While Windows 7 is great and around until at least 2020, an expensive move to Linux, FreeBSD or Android seems like the better option.
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