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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#131

Post by calsy »

lossolo wrote: post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

Im curious to know how you could simply not go to school? Where I live it's compulsory. Smart or dumb, it doesn't matter, you go to school. I'm having a hard time understanding why they would just allow you to stay home in high school.

Did your parents agree with this way of schooling? That you were too smart to go to school? That's the only way I could see this happening. Did you study when you weren't at school, or did you simply chill out till test time?

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#132

Post by roywiggins »

calsy wrote: post #131
lossolo wrote: post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

Im curious to know how you could simply not go to school? Where I live it's compulsory. Smart or dumb, it doesn't matter, you go to school. I'm having a hard time understanding why they would just allow you to stay home in high school. Did your parents agree with this way of schooling? That you were too smart to go to school? That's the only way I could see this happening. Did you study when you weren't at school, or…

In the US, at least, homeschooling is generally allowed. Some states don't have any requirements at all on who, how, and when a student can be homeschooled as long as a parent signs the right form. Some school districts let homeschoolers take a class or two without being fully enrolled.

For some students and some schools, being in school is actively bad for them, even worse than a fairly useless homeschooling experience. Some schools are just that bad.

The hard part is getting into college. You can take a test (the GED) that is meant to certify that you have an equivalent to a highschool education. Still, without a transcript, you will have to lean a lot on your resume (jobs, volunteering, internships) and personal statement.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#133

Post by dchess »

Fordrus wrote: post #124

Putting a little TL;DR up here on top, because I'd really like to see folks' answers to this: What's the simple-language equivalent of, "You're so smart," or "That was so smart," but for intellectual effort ? Now, regularly scheduled thoughts :) : What is a good, short method/word for praising effort? with my 8.5-month old, "Good Job," specific variants on it ("Good Job climbing that staircase, tiny!") and such have…

Seems like the simple, "Nice work!", fits the bill.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#134

Post by projektir »

GrinningFool wrote: post #123
rasz_pl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a fucked up school full of tools. There was a gifted kid in my third grade. He was moved up one grade straight to 5, and again to 7 to finally match rest of the class.

While the response that GP got was wrong on my levels, what was done to that gifted kid was no favor either. Anecdote warning: I've seen very few kids who skip more than a grade (if that) who have the ability to relate and function among peers well. They're not generally going to be accepted as a peer at that age by kids a couple-few years older than them - and for many, school is where that skill is learned.

That seems like a problem on another level.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#135

Post by Nzen »

Fordrus wrote: post #124

Putting a little TL;DR up here on top, because I'd really like to see folks' answers to this: What's the simple-language equivalent of, "You're so smart," or "That was so smart," but for intellectual effort ? Now, regularly scheduled thoughts :) : What is a good, short method/word for praising effort? with my 8.5-month old, "Good Job," specific variants on it ("Good Job climbing that staircase, tiny!") and such have…

perhaps 'Good hustle'

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#136

Post by aianus »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #13

Stop trying to game your kids. Praise them whatever. Love, security, praise, attention, just go for it. I doubt very much that all the noise around raising children can be filtered out to be able to differentiate between sentences. Just raise kids with love and fun.

I agree. If you want to game something, game your own life so you can leave your kids trust funds.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#137

Post by justinhj »

lossolo wrote: post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

at school I was always lazy and selected where to put in effort. If everyone in a math class was stuck on some problem that was when I was paid attention and listened and solved it. now I work as a programmer and feel like one my biggest advantages over everybody else is knowing what to be interested in and what to code.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#138

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

People say I'm smart. I don't buy it. I know a lot of things, sure, but anyone can do that. And I'm lazy, so I tend to be a bit slack about everything, but I like to think I can get things done when it counts. After all, when I apply for college, I'll be competing with all kinds of smart kids. And dammit, I happen to like learning things, and as much as I am lazy, my personal desire to learn things kinda outweighs that.

Which may be why I've spent so much time when I've been ostensibly slacking off trying to understand monads, reading HN, and, every few months or so, once again trying to bash my way through SICP...

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#139

Post by bpchaps »

Spooky23 wrote: post #120
nitrogen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's advocating teaching smart kids everyone is the same? It seems that has been the general trend in elementary education since I was a kid. As an example, I remember the year that all the talent trophies were changed to be the same size, and everyone got one just for participating. Athletics were an exception, though; it was considered acceptable to be better at sports. It was a noble attempt to try to boost the u…

In my school, it was in 1993/1994. They went from "tracked" classes that mixed the 20 year old 9th graders with smart kids. Everyone got to suffer together.

I was a "smart kid" in high school and found myself getting bored in the honors class to point of getting kicked out and pushed into the "normal" class as the only white kid, 90% of the time.

It was honestly probably the best thing that happened to me. It helped me build empathy and grounded me to accepting that intelligence is only one piece of the puzzle. I'm now working in a position that gives me huge intellectual freedom.

There is a silver lining.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#140

Post by extr »

moyix wrote: post #49

There is an interesting and critical look at Dweck's work on "growth mindset" here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-growt... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/10/i-will-never-have-the-a... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/22/growth-mindset-3-a-pox-... http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growth...

nothing to add except that SSC is, bar none, my favorite blog on the internet
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