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Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

psychology.stanford.edu

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Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#111

Post by stevenkovar »

nibs wrote: post #9
RMcNeely wrote: post #7

Suddenly my life makes so much more sense.....

Gifted underachievement goes a lot deeper than reinforcement. Eventually, gifted people learn synthesis comes more easily to them and can learn to coast or become anti-social as a result and still get by. Peter Thiel on his thoughts re: Elon Musk: "[He is] very smart, very charismatic, and incredibly driven -- a very rare combination, since most people who have one of these traits learn to coast on the other two." Qu…

Tim Ferriss had a very interesting podcast with Walter O'Brien which touches on teaching those with incredibly high IQ to develop their EQ (Intelligence:Emotional) to bridge this gap—including himself.

If you're interested: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/02/16/scorpion/

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#112

Post by erikb »

Practicality wrote: post #81

I tell my child she is smart AND that that isn't enough for us. We know she is smart, but so are we and we can tell when she is slacking and lying. It's actually working very well, but it took quite a while for her to believe us. In the long run she is showing a deep appreciation for how honest we are with her. This would likely work with most smarter children. If you don't play mind games with them they will stop tr…

Really good approach, especially the part with the trust and the others lying to her as well.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#113

Post by sverige »

visarga wrote: post #110

Praise intelligence -> makes them give up easier. Praise hard work -> could be a subtle attempt at manipulation. Maybe instead we should ask them what they want to do, and support their creative activities.

They are children. The are a big mess of potential without experience. They need guidance from people with experience because they don't know much, even if they have a lot of native intelligence. It's kind of like pruning plants. Some things you encourage, some things you cut off without hesitation.

Sounds cold to some, I understand, but once you've raised a few, you'll know what you did right and what you did wrong. That's still better than letting them decide everything.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#114

Post by stevenkovar »

speeder wrote: post #39
soufron wrote: post #15

So what? If they're smart they dont need to work anyway...

I was "the" smart kid in my social circle. People that knew mr as a kid still ask me opinion on random stuff because they remember that. But my adult life (I am 28 now) went nowhere precisely for this reason. As a kid, I could literally skip all classes and homework, then figure the subject "on the spot" during tests, and score high enough to still pass. This doesn't work as adult, but I don't know how to do it right…

A good practice to adopt to help with this: join a gym and work out 2-3 times a week.

Learn through the gym how to enjoy the process more than the milestones, and apply the same mechanic to other aspects of life. What's the next 2% improvement you can make to anything in your life?

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#115

Post by erikb »

visarga wrote: post #110

Praise intelligence -> makes them give up easier. Praise hard work -> could be a subtle attempt at manipulation. Maybe instead we should ask them what they want to do, and support their creative activities.

I don't like this. As a 5 year old you can't even know what you want in 10 minutes.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#116

Post by thomasahle »

dllthomas wrote: post #5
jedberg wrote: post #2

TL;DR: If you're interacting with a kid, try to avoid saying, "you're so smart!" and instead say, "You've picked this up really quickly" or "you're such a hard worker". If you tell a child they are smart then they will stop trying either because they assume they can get by on their intelligence or because they are afraid of failing and loosing your praise about how smart they are.

"You worked really hard on it that!" seems a bad thing to say without having observed the kid working hard. I know if I'd been told I worked hard on something that came easily, it would have cost the speaker credibility. My tentative plan, for my son, is to phrase it as a question. "Did you work hard on this?". If so, praise the hard work. If not, "let's find you something more challenging".

Also, obviously perhaps, just try to follow your sons/daughters progress, so you can praise/comment on what was actually hard for them.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#117

Post by dllthomas »

gohrt wrote: post #74
dllthomas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You worked really hard on it that!" seems a bad thing to say without having observed the kid working hard. I know if I'd been told I worked hard on something that came easily, it would have cost the speaker credibility. My tentative plan, for my son, is to phrase it as a question. "Did you work hard on this?". If so, praise the hard work. If not, "let's find you something more challenging".

Sure, lying is unhelpful. The point is to praise the positive qualities that are under the recipient's control, such has effort, persistence, decisions. Generally, praise them for what they DO, not who they ARE.

I wouldn't characterize it as lying, so much as making an assumption.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#118

Post by rasz_pl »

lossolo wrote: post #48

I can confirm that. When i was child, every teacher said to me and my parents that i am so gifted, so smart. And i thought i am so smart that i don't need to spend so much time on school like others. So i missed on school a lot. In high school there were classes on which i was less than 50% throughout the semester. And it was ok, i needed only 2 last weeks to pass all the tests. In last year i did the same, again i n…

That is a fucked up school full of tools.

There was a gifted kid in my third grade. He was moved up one grade straight to 5, and again to 7 to finally match rest of the class.

Re: Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation (1998) [pdf]

#120

Post by Spooky23 »

nitrogen wrote: post #89
colechristensen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could it not be equally harmful to a smart kid to give them the impression that their intelligence is worthless? That just doesn't make sense. Praise your kid for doing not for being. Who's advocating teaching smart kids everyone is the same? It seems like any child is going to realize this isn't true. >is this "praise effort and self esteem" movement responsible for the current wave of anti-free-speech protests on…

Who's advocating teaching smart kids everyone is the same? It seems that has been the general trend in elementary education since I was a kid. As an example, I remember the year that all the talent trophies were changed to be the same size, and everyone got one just for participating. Athletics were an exception, though; it was considered acceptable to be better at sports. It was a noble attempt to try to boost the u…

In my school, it was in 1993/1994.

They went from "tracked" classes that mixed the 20 year old 9th graders with smart kids. Everyone got to suffer together.

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