Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 336 posts

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#301

Post by josho »

nitrogen wrote: post #274
andrepd wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone creates something, they set the rules. End of story. Don't like it? Don't buy. But don't steal, also. If you don't like the price of a shirt and don't like the security in the shop, do you just grab the shirt and leave? Oh, and the store is supposed to thank you , because after all you're going to wear the shirt in public and get a ton of free publicity for the store? Puh-lease...

There's nothing inherent in nature that gives a creator any control whatsoever over others' use of their ideas. In the absence of a system of copyright, every audience member at a concert would be free to hold their own concert the next day, singing their remembered versions of the same songs. This is how culture actually worked for ages. Copyright is a legal fiction, created by governments and enforced by the threat…

> This is how culture actually worked for ages.

That's an interesting perspective that we've lost through time as a result of our laws.

This is why DRM scares me so much. What will our society be like when culture says that it's ok that we don't get to tinker, that we don't actually own anything, etc.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#302

Post by loader »

habitue wrote: post #287
aerovistae wrote: post #267

The thing that gets me is that everyone's fine with libraries and used book stores, as well as sales of second hand games and DVDs, none of which send profits back to the creators or rights-owners. But digital piracy , that's amoral. Sigh. I like seeing the contortions of logic people pull off to try and explain how these things are different.

But it is different! Used bookstores wont let you walk out with the book for free, they charge you :P

so more like libraries?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#303

Post by anexprogrammer »

mind_heist wrote: post #245
anexprogrammer wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sidenote2: Hollywood got started because of a move from NYC to get around having to pay licenses to Edison. Hollywood exists because they wanted to infringe the protections without paying. MPAA would prefer we didn't remember that.

Hmm ...this is really interesting, I didn't know about 'Hollywood built on piracy' story at all. I did some research and found this interesting comment in one of the articles, which does seem to make sense. "The proponents of this myth seem to want to suggest an analogy: Hollywood was built by “outlaws”; now Hollywood has become the incumbent, seeking to stop the next generation of “outlaws”. But this is a false equi…

That's some impressive variation from how I remember reading it, though you'll note I said licensing not piracy. If memory serves it was equipment licensing that was the issue - rental of cameras, projectors and such.

I don't know enough of the period to know who's right, but looking at the about page tells me all I need to know about the independence of view: "... representing creators across the spectrum of copyright disciplines. He represents the Copyright Alliance in all copyright and related policy issues in a variety of forums". So choose your preferred flavour of spin?

It's well known Edison was an evil bastard for instance. You've only to read a little, especially on Tesla, to realise that. So there's little doubt that moving to Hollywood and escaping Edison's thugs was a good thing. The fact remains he had the movie industry of the time tied up with patents. I think it was actually Edison who pirated a movie, and ended up putting someone out of business in the process.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#304

Post by 6clotr1ckg »

Nullabillity wrote: post #294
6clotr1ckg wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US has that too, it's called the Pell Grant.

> Federal Pell Grants are limited to students with financial need, who have not earned their first bachelor's degree, or who are enrolled in certain post-baccalaureate programs, through participating institutions.[1] CSN money is not conditional based on your family's income, has no relationship with the military, and is not earmarked for any particular purpose. The only requirements are that you can't get more than…

Pell is also not earmarked to a particular purpose and has no relationship with the military, as far as I know. It seems like both programs have a different set of restrictions (Pell does not care how old you are, for example), but CSN is probably more generous overall.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#305

Post by nitrogen »

dhimes wrote: post #288
nitrogen wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing inherent in nature that gives a creator any control whatsoever over others' use of their ideas. In the absence of a system of copyright, every audience member at a concert would be free to hold their own concert the next day, singing their remembered versions of the same songs. This is how culture actually worked for ages. Copyright is a legal fiction, created by governments and enforced by the threat…

All laws are fiction by your account. Why is violence illegal? Why can't bigger/more skilled people just beat up the weak and take their stuff? That's how things were for tens of thousands of years. Prohibiting that is a legal fiction. Torrenting a movie does not fall into the category of "theft of ideas." It is falls into the category of stealing a work. As for the argument that things would be made/written etc. any…

Yeah, all laws are inventions of people intended to express shared morals in a way that prevents vigilantism. I did say copyright is often a useful fiction. But it goes way too far in its present form of 120 year terms and conflation with physical property. As just one hypothetical, we could easily have a system of patronage with a pseudomarket that determines where the patronage is applied, and creators would still get paid, without having to sue single moms and college students.

You're still using words like "theft" and "stealing". Those terms confuse duplication with deprivation. If we had a magic ray gun that could make a copy of any car on the street for basically zero cost, without affecting the original owner of the car, you'd better believe people would use that, and they definitely wouldn't call it stealing.

So when discussing how to reward creators of intangible products for their work (but only if it's actually good -- nobody "deserves" extra money just because they want it), talking about "theft" and "property" is not helping.

---

Added in edit:

> You would be seeing the productions all over TV (because there's no royalty to pay, right?).

I don't think we can reasonably use our current reality as proof that it's the only possible reality. We see talented people gravitate toward the available market for their talents, yes, but in the absence of that market I don't see how their talents would just evaporate.

Besides, most of us who oppose current copyright aren't talking about total abolition (at least not until society is completely post-scarcity). We want an acknowledgement that current works stand on the shoulders of past works, and that future works should be allowed and encouraged to do the same, as well as an acknowledgement that technology is changing and the conveniences of that technology should be embraced, not hindered with crap like DRM and oppressive lawsuits.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#306

Post by bnj »

whatok wrote: post #151
rangibaby wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then they should just give everyone the cheap price. I don't see why Hollywood is entitled to x% of my salary. If it means they have to spend a few mllion dollars less on advertising Captain America 4 or Star Wars 8 or Fast and Furious 8 then so be it.

Or you could just not watch those movies. Hollywood is not entitled to your money in the same way that you are not entitled to free or or "cheap" access to their products.

Be that as it may, a consequence of piracy is that Hollywood is forced to the bargaining table. Protesting against that feeling of entitlement to better prices is a common theme on HN, but it ignores the (current) reality that if someone wants to watch the latest Hollywood blockbuster for free, there is nothing to stop them from doing so.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#307

Post by nickpsecurity »

ultramancool wrote: post #279
nickpsecurity wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing what you don't own without owner's permission is either illegal or considered u ethical. Cant recall off yop of head. Buying copywritten works usually buys license yo use , not distribute (share). So, don't share the copywritten work seems like sane default if one wants to stay legal. Whether or not copyright systems make sense or not is another discussion entirely. Irrelevant even given it has to be changed…

> Buying copywritten works usually buys license yo use, not distribute (share) Under this definition loaning a book or movie to a friend is sketchy. The sharing model is rampant as individuals, it only became a problem when the internet made it so strangers could share without much of a thought that they were even doing so. But I seriously have to ask myself how borrowing a DVD from my friend differs from torrenting…

"But I seriously have to ask myself how borrowing a DVD from my friend differs from torrenting it instead. "

I cant remember the specifics on loaning angle. I'd just not advertise that I did. Your comment reminds me that i need to fo a refresher on this stuff's grey areas in case the wording needs to be modified.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#308

Post by nickpsecurity »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #265
nickpsecurity wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing what you don't own without owner's permission is either illegal or considered u ethical. Cant recall off yop of head. Buying copywritten works usually buys license yo use , not distribute (share). So, don't share the copywritten work seems like sane default if one wants to stay legal. Whether or not copyright systems make sense or not is another discussion entirely. Irrelevant even given it has to be changed…

Owning what you don't possess sets you up for legal takeover. No one stops you from handing a book or disc to another person, in fact, entire governmental organizations exist to handle the logistics of freely sharing such artifacts. Sharing is the first moral many of us are taught.

You're again talking about unimplemented morals, which vary person to person, while Im talking about ways to describe actual law. A copywritten work cant be legally shared, displayed, or so on without permission of the owner. The laws have exceptions like fair use, first sale doctrine on individual copies, or libraries loaning them out. Past that, your claims of morals have no practical meaning in a country that enforces the opposite.

Such morals should instead incite those who possess them to act as a democracy to reform the complex and corrupt system. Like we did fighting thjngs like SOPA. So far, almost no action toward elected officials backing up alternatives you suggest people want while they put strong effort onto other issues. I think this means majority of the US just doesnt care that much. And quite a few oppose us hoping to be next to get rich with a monopoly or maintain good portfolios.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#309

Post by ewar-woowar »

witty_username wrote: post #242
pcf wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way digitally, you mean? Because you can still buy physical DVD's and Blu-Ray's, right?

Shipping would be expensive though.

Shipping and not being able to preview any of the series makes buying everything a very expensive lottery. Who buys random series of TV shows they have never seen even a single episode of?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#310

Post by curiousgal »

Svenskunganka wrote: post #18
drops wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

qBittorrent client has an in-built search engine

Do you know how it works? Does it use the DHT or is there a central tracker/index somewhere?

It just uses different search providers. You can see the list when you enable/disable search plugins.

https://github.com/qbittorrent/qBittorrent/wiki/Unofficial-s...

Post reply on HN