Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell • Hacker News Board

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#271

Post by khedoros » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #201

jokoon wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the netflix catalog is not as big as people claims it is (I live in france). There are many movies missing from the 2000-2010 period (and more when you go beyond). There also are many smaller details that makes torrent more attractive, like being able to watch the movie offline, HD with low bandwidth, subtitle choice, etc. Netflix is a good step, and of course the movie industry will use it as "no excuse" argume…

Haven't the media conglomerates made it clear you pay to access the content rather than purchasing it. So pay the lowest rate you find fit the content and acquire it as you please, eg torrent + subtitles + dub that you want. Surely that's entirely consistent with their position morally?

> Haven't the media conglomerates made it clear you pay to access the content rather than purchasing it.

Legally, I think they usually make a stricter claim than that: You are purchasing access to the content, but only using the method that you paid for. If you buy the DVD, you aren't licensed to rip it and play the content from files (unless you live somewhere with medium-shifting laws that provide that right).

Further, say that you own a copy in some format, and you torrent an equivalent quality copy. What they'll actually go after you for is the redistribution of tiny chunks of the file to other people in the torrent swarm, because it's easier to prove that you took part in unauthorized redistribution than to prove that you didn't have the right to access the content in the format that you torrented.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#272

Post by 6clotr1ckg » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:38 PM UTC

Nullabillity wrote: post #175

lma21 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which EU country you get paid to go to college?

At the very least, Sweden[1] and Denmark[2] have systems that pad out your student loans with government grants that apply to (almost) everyone. [1]: http://www.csn.se/en/2.1034/2.1036/2.1037/2.1038 [2]: http://www.su.dk/english/

US has that too, it's called the Pell Grant.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#273

Post by lvs » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:43 PM UTC

josho wrote: post #184

mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

Sharing is just as bad as pirating. Let's call it what it is. Copyright infringement.

I pay these content companies so much money across a multitude of services, and yet I still can't watch much of anything that's worth a damn. Their whole business model is hostile to their own customers and remains broken even in the Netflix era.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#274

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:46 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #262

Endy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't allow that idea. If anything, I'm helping the creator by getting one more set of eyes and potentially word-of-mouth advertising out there that wouldn't have happened otherwise. If creators believed their product actually had value, they'd offer a 'try-before-you-buy' option. When they paywall & DRM it, my automatic assumption is that they know it's crap and they'd get nothing for it if they were dealing o…

Someone creates something, they set the rules. End of story. Don't like it? Don't buy. But don't steal, also. If you don't like the price of a shirt and don't like the security in the shop, do you just grab the shirt and leave? Oh, and the store is supposed to thank you , because after all you're going to wear the shirt in public and get a ton of free publicity for the store? Puh-lease...

There's nothing inherent in nature that gives a creator any control whatsoever over others' use of their ideas. In the absence of a system of copyright, every audience member at a concert would be free to hold their own concert the next day, singing their remembered versions of the same songs. This is how culture actually worked for ages.

Copyright is a legal fiction, created by governments and enforced by the threat of violence. It is often a useful legal fiction, but absolutely none of it justifies the selfish and self-righteous "MINE!" attitude you seem to espouse in your confusion of physical theft with duplication of ideas.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#275

Post by duskwuff » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #258

Karunamon wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright infringement is to artists as H1-B Visa abuse is to programmers. Both make it harder to earn a living and depress wages/destroy jobs in their respective fields. See, here's the biggest problem with "copyright infringement" as a term; it's too broad. It covers $random_co using your stuff commercially, but it also covers your gran downloading songs from sketchy websites in Russia. I don't think even the most…

Offtopic, but why use the $igil, and still say (insert ...)? :) They have the same meaning.

$(cmd) is a Bash syntax which runs a command and interpolates it into a string.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#276

Post by solidangle » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 6:54 PM UTC

Zombieball wrote: post #268

Freak_NL wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that there is an explanation for this geoblocking doesn't mean that we aren't being treated differently. Fortunately, Netflix is putting a lot of effort in their own content to prevent exactly this quagmire of regional licensing. They are well aware that it is one of the biggest complaints their customers have. Oddly enough, the new Star Trek series will actually be on Netflix worldwide except for North Amer…

> usually it is only the other way around except for the local-language content. I personally don't think this is true. There are significant amounts of content on Netflix that are only available in regions such as NLD and GBR that are not available in USA / CAN (Orphan Black comes to mind off the top of my head). The problem definitely goes both ways.

I would give up those few titles if that means getting access to the US (or even Canadian) Netflix library. It's also important to mention that those TV series are actually aired on TV in the United States, here in the Netherlands we have to hope that some TV picks up the rights in a few years (instead of airing endless Bones/CSI/House reruns) if it's not on Netflix.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#277

Post by lewisl9029 » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #257

mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

>As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Yeah, not always, but very often. Everyone here is trying to downplay this, but I would say >80% of people (disclamer: pulled from my behind) torrent simply because it's free and if they can easily obtain it free rather than paying, then they will. The argument that people pirate because the paid options are shit, and if they were as convenient as torrents people…

> Everyone here is trying to downplay this, but I would say >80% of people (disclamer: pulled from my behind) torrent simply because it's free and if they can easily obtain it free rather than paying, then they will. The argument that people pirate because the paid options are shit, and if they were as convenient as torrents people would just pay for them, is rendered moot with the Steam counterexample. Content distribution is much more well advanced and convenient in games compared to movies, and people still pirate en masse.

There is also the argument that a large portion of those people would never have paid for your content in the first place even if it wasn't available for free through piracy, that most of them shouldn't even be considered a part of your customer base to begin with because they simply aren't willing or aren't able to pay for it.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#278

Post by oxide » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 7:03 PM UTC

mikegerwitz wrote: post #232

lettergram wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Oh man, I used to have to reformat my computer regularly (like 3 times a year). There were several hardware issues, my house was struck by lightning, etc. I swear every time I'd have to call windows, and be like "hey my key is not working" (I know it's because it was activated previously, but still). They would usually make me call and reset it or what have you.…

> Honesty, I'd argue most people would pay if they could (at a reasonable price), torrenting just makes all the barriers go away. Or pay more, even, for a non-DRM-encumbered version; DRM stops people like you, but not crackers or the analog hole. Thanks for sharing a good example.

>DRM stops people like you

punish the paying customer and hope for the best.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#279

Post by ultramancool » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #264

jsprogrammer wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that sharing is not illegal. The idea itself is absurd and sounds absurd when expressed. If you told people that sharing was illegal, the most common response you'd get would likely be, "lol, wut?"

Sharing what you don't own without owner's permission is either illegal or considered u ethical. Cant recall off yop of head. Buying copywritten works usually buys license yo use , not distribute (share). So, don't share the copywritten work seems like sane default if one wants to stay legal. Whether or not copyright systems make sense or not is another discussion entirely. Irrelevant even given it has to be changed…

> Buying copywritten works usually buys license yo use, not distribute (share)

Under this definition loaning a book or movie to a friend is sketchy.

The sharing model is rampant as individuals, it only became a problem when the internet made it so strangers could share without much of a thought that they were even doing so.

But I seriously have to ask myself how borrowing a DVD from my friend differs from torrenting it instead. Perhaps the only difference is that only 1 copy can be watched at a time? Do we need a file loaning service?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#280

Post by wangchow » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #262

Endy wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't allow that idea. If anything, I'm helping the creator by getting one more set of eyes and potentially word-of-mouth advertising out there that wouldn't have happened otherwise. If creators believed their product actually had value, they'd offer a 'try-before-you-buy' option. When they paywall & DRM it, my automatic assumption is that they know it's crap and they'd get nothing for it if they were dealing o…

Someone creates something, they set the rules. End of story. Don't like it? Don't buy. But don't steal, also. If you don't like the price of a shirt and don't like the security in the shop, do you just grab the shirt and leave? Oh, and the store is supposed to thank you , because after all you're going to wear the shirt in public and get a ton of free publicity for the store? Puh-lease...

Well, this is true in Capitalism as we know it. But, truthfully there is a deeper relationship to the things we create and the people we share them with. What is the end goal of creating art or new scientific discoveries? If it's money alone, well, that's a problem. Ideas need to be shared whether art or science. Just think how we use Arabic numerals.. Every day. Should we be paying someone for that privilege?

What if there were no copyrights. Would people still create things? Damn right they will. At least the skilled and the curious people will.