Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell • Hacker News Board

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#241

Post by soheil » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 4:38 PM UTC

mikegerwitz wrote: post #163

Svenskunganka wrote: post #65

Torrents and copyright infringement is related, we can all agree on that. But I believe that pirating is related to a very fuzzy legal system regarding this topic and unfair treatment by the major movie studios & music labels. I'll try to explain as good as I can. Being a european citizen, it is very frustrating knowing that pirating is illegal even though being a Netflix, HBO & Spotify customer. Pirating is a much b…

The term "piracy" doesn't help the problems any---it's a smear term that tries to put downloading and sharing on the same level as murder and kidnapping. https://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-banned-from-using-piracy-and-t... . I prefer the term "sharing". As you mention, intent is not always to avoid paying. Some people may want backups, may have lost their copy after paying for it, may be frustrated by DRM-laced copies tha…

If "piracy" is too strong of a word "sharing" is too weak of a word. Clearly we must differentiate between legal sharing and non-legal. Piring? (it also sounds like peering which is very much in the spirit of p2p.)

To me it hasn't been proven yet how the argument for p2p copyright laws is any different than a hypothetical argument for let's say drinking, should we make drinking illegal because some people end up harming others because of it and hence any positive/neutral experience derived from it denied to us and overshadowed in the darkness of legality.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#242

Post by witty_username » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

pcf wrote: post #161

kagamine wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> theft of service is that you simply don't want to pay Prices in Norwegian kroner (NOK) Apple Music 99 / 149 Spotify Prem. 99 iTunes Movies 49 to rent 24 hours 159 to buy (~same as DVD in supermarket) Netflix 79 99 129 HD? x y y Nr screens 1 2 4 I don't know how much these services think I can spend on entertainment every month, they are all priced as though they are the only service in the market and like I have no…

The only way digitally, you mean? Because you can still buy physical DVD's and Blu-Ray's, right?

Shipping would be expensive though.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#243

Post by witty_username » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 4:52 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #178

hueving wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A constitution cannot grant you rights over things in another country. I am granted freedom of speech in the US but that doesn't permit me to paint crude depictions of 'the prophet' Muhammad in the UAE.

Interesting example, some would argue that you aren't free to paint depictions of Muhammad in the US either.

Could you elaborate? What law does that violate?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#244

Post by Noos » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

candu wrote: post #213

josho wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing is just as bad as pirating. Let's call it what it is. Copyright infringement.

Well, your statement is tautological, since those are two terms for the same thing :) The real question is how "bad" we should consider copyright infringement to be. For many of us, copyright law has lost its moral footing with draconian DRM, extreme examples of RIAA / MPAA litigation, insane Disney-fueled copyright terms, and a corresponding erosion of the public domain. It may not have lost its legal footing, but l…

Copyright infringement is to artists as H1-B Visa abuse is to programmers. Both make it harder to earn a living and depress wages/destroy jobs in their respective fields. Both tend to hit the individual or little guy harder than the big company/rockstar-copyright infringement can siphon enough sales from small presses or independent artists to make it no longer profitable to operate.

Many programmers seem to have no real care for creators, so it seems moral to them to more or less destroy their wages, force them to make money not off of creating, but touring, beg for tips via Patreon, etc. If the same thing was done to them, they'd be howling how unfair it is. How about your job pays you little to nothing and you need to advertise and get people to support you monthly on a crowdfunding site just to make ends meet in your field?

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#245

Post by mind_heist » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:01 PM UTC

anexprogrammer wrote: post #90

scrollaway wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have a Spotify subscription. Then I moved out of Sweden and lost half my playlists. Never subscribed again. I never had a Netflix subscription because I don't have a good enough connection to stream high quality videos - Additionally, I rewatch some series a lot. It's simply more convenient to have them on my hard drive. The US gov is running around the internet policing copyright for very specific companie…

Sidenote2: Hollywood got started because of a move from NYC to get around having to pay licenses to Edison. Hollywood exists because they wanted to infringe the protections without paying. MPAA would prefer we didn't remember that.

Hmm ...this is really interesting, I didn't know about 'Hollywood built on piracy' story at all. I did some research and found this interesting comment in one of the articles, which does seem to make sense.

"The proponents of this myth seem to want to suggest an analogy: Hollywood was built by “outlaws”; now Hollywood has become the incumbent, seeking to stop the next generation of “outlaws”. But this is a false equivalence. The Pirate Bay (or Megaupload, etc.) isn’t producing its own movies. Recognizing exclusive rights to a creative work doesn’t prohibit anyone from creating their own works. Stopping someone from offering copies, especially complete, verbatim copies, of a work is not anti-competitive."

from : http://www.copyhype.com/2012/05/was-hollywood-built-on-pirac...

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#246

Post by dhimes » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:03 PM UTC

Endy wrote: post #230

dhimes wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also have to allow for the idea that you are doing harm to the creator if you are making it available for free even if you don't profit from it.

No, I don't allow that idea. If anything, I'm helping the creator by getting one more set of eyes and potentially word-of-mouth advertising out there that wouldn't have happened otherwise. If creators believed their product actually had value, they'd offer a 'try-before-you-buy' option. When they paywall & DRM it, my automatic assumption is that they know it's crap and they'd get nothing for it if they were dealing o…

When they paywall & DRM it, my automatic assumption is that they know it's crap

Then obviously this isn't a primary concern of yours, because why would you rip off crap?

How would you execute "try before you buy" for a novel? You can already get free previews. For a movie? You can view a trailer. You can view reviews. You can rent it, but not for free. I don't see how letting you watch it then deciding if you want to buy it or not will work. How many movies do we keep permanent copies of so we can view them repeatedly? Not many adults I know do this very much.

There are honest complaints about DRM. My gripe with it is that I don't want vendor lock-in on the reading devices. My gripe with research paywalls is for research paid for with public funds. But I have no problem (morally) with the Washington Post asking for a subscription.

To take it when it's not yours is stealing, pure and simple. If it has no value for you then don't take it, and certainly don't redistribute it.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#247

Post by antoineMoPa » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:07 PM UTC

The first thing that got me to pirate movies was that DVDs did not work because of their DRM after I installed Linux. I had plenty of legally bought movies that just did not work on my computer until I found the right Gentoo packages (libdvd-css or something)... I never tried Netflix because it took so many years for it to work with Linux. Being a free software user, it is easier to pirate stuff than to buy the content. If companies just gave me access to a DRM free .avi/.ogv download for a decent price, I would buy the damn movies.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#248

Post by Noos » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

wangchow wrote: post #218

dhimes wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you also have to allow for the idea that you are doing harm to the creator if you are making it available for free even if you don't profit from it.

Certainly true. However, the digital world is a changing landscape. Consider how technology replaces humans in the workplace and displaces jobs. No matter what, change causes collateral damage and the reality is this time it's hitting the bottom-line of the wealthy studios. If they can't afford to come up with a brilliant technical solution to the problem then they are SOL. :)

The wealthy studios are least hit, to be blunt. Generally the more wealthy the content creator, the better they adapt. James Patterson doesn't suffer from piracy as much as the B or C list author who can't get signed or make back his advance. Blizzard doesn't suffer, it's the small indie PC dev.

I think the ebook market is a good example. The big companies can absorb ebook piracy just by raising prices and relying on print sales and a large stable of works to deal with weak sales of easily pirated things. But the small presses and indie authors are starting to dry up because piracy tends to hit them much harder as they have less print options (indie authors never get traditional shelf space) no stable of books to offset risk, and a much smaller window when their book is viable.

There's a good argument that creative destruction favors the rich more than the poor, I think.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#249

Post by Karunamon » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #244

candu wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, your statement is tautological, since those are two terms for the same thing :) The real question is how "bad" we should consider copyright infringement to be. For many of us, copyright law has lost its moral footing with draconian DRM, extreme examples of RIAA / MPAA litigation, insane Disney-fueled copyright terms, and a corresponding erosion of the public domain. It may not have lost its legal footing, but l…

Copyright infringement is to artists as H1-B Visa abuse is to programmers. Both make it harder to earn a living and depress wages/destroy jobs in their respective fields. Both tend to hit the individual or little guy harder than the big company/rockstar-copyright infringement can siphon enough sales from small presses or independent artists to make it no longer profitable to operate. Many programmers seem to have no…

Copyright infringement is to artists as H1-B Visa abuse is to programmers. Both make it harder to earn a living and depress wages/destroy jobs in their respective fields.

See, here's the biggest problem with "copyright infringement" as a term; it's too broad. It covers $random_co using your stuff commercially, but it also covers your gran downloading songs from sketchy websites in Russia.

I don't think even the most die-hard of $(insert favorite adjective form of term under discussion) would excuse the first, but quite a few normal, reasonable people would excuse the second, in part, because the economic "harm" is unambiguous in the first case, and impossible to quantify (possibly negative) in the second.

Large multibillion dollar organizations suing grandmothers, printers, and dead people, and claiming $(insert noun form of term) is responsible for $dubious_bignum in "lost sales" isn't helping.

Re: Torrentz Shuts Down, Largest Torrent Meta-Search Engine Says Farewell

#250

Post by rahimnathwani » Fri, Aug 05, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #117

hkjgkjy wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I have preconceived notions, but I don't imagine anyone running any risk of prosecution for pirating foreign movies in China?

Ordinary torrenting is also blocked in China. You need to run your torrent software through a VPN. Last I was there, Astrill seemed to be the way to go. But the situation evolves.

Some torrent search/index sites and torrent trackers may be blocked, but torrent traffic itself is not blocked in China, at least on the domestic ISPs I've used. I can download a debian image over bittorrent, without VPN, without a problem. In fact, it can be faster than download directly over http, as the traffic has more potential routes.