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How to listen when you disagree

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Re: How to listen when you disagree

#61

Post by zw123456 »

I love the sentiment that the author was trying to convey. The example that was provided was beautiful. It is really important to realize that usually it does not work out as beautifully as was presented in this particular example.

My experience in active listening is that perhaps 1 out of 20 times do you get a good outcome as was the case in this example. Generally, the person will simply yell things at you about the Bible so something like that. However I have had one similar experience a long time ago. When I first came out, almost all my family members were accepting, except for one sister who had a lot of trouble with it. It took a long time to get her into a situation where she would even talk to me about it. When she finally did, it had a lot more to do with her failed marriage and something about how hard she tried to make it work and how it was not fair that she tried to live according to the Christian way (my family is super religious, I am not, I am an atheist, all other family is evangelical). She seemed to think I was getting away with something. It did not really change a lot but it did seem like she softened a little perhaps just being able to bitch at me about it helped I guess. I am not convinced the listening approach actually changes much, but it certainly can be interesting.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#62

Post by AnimalMuppet »

zzalpha wrote: post #42
chki wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this wouldn't be a step towards understanding another person: more information should always help you to grasp somebody else's line of thought. I think you are right that understanding is really far away from compromise, especially if your conversational counterpart is obviously having a very non-rational standpoint. But isn't it still better to "understand" them and wouldn't it be easier for you to w…

I think it depends on how you define "better". The situation is better in that the listener has a more empathic, more thorough understanding of the speaker. In that sense there was a positive exchange of information and understanding, which is great. Beyond that, though, what has been accomplished? I know that sounds hopelessly utilitarian, but in the end, when it comes to issues like, say, abortion, I fail to see ho…

It can still take the hatred out.

A pro-life person could say, "I believe that life begins at conception (or when the heart starts, or when the brainwaves start), and after that, abortion is murder. But I also understand what a horrible position that puts many women in, and the real pain it causes in real lives. I still can't compromise - I believe abortion should be illegal - but I can understand why people are on the other side, and I don't hate them for being there."

And a pro-choice person could say, "I care about womens' ability to choose what they want for their own lives. But I can see how, if you genuinely believe that abortion is murder, you simply can't support it in good conscience. I can't agree with you, and we can't compromise. But I can respect you for standing for what you think is morally right, even when I think you're wrong on what is actually moral in this situation."

Wouldn't that be better? It's still an unresolvable issue. But if we could remove the hatred on both sides, wouldn't that be better?

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#63

Post by rababa »

In poker your hand is what it is whether you realize it or not. It doesn't matter if you say 'I have two pairs of aces' because you still actually have four of a kind.

I do the same with arguments. I try very hard to 'steel man' opposing views in total sincerity.

This doesn't take any kind of kindness or humility at all, just a desire to actually be right and not delude oneself.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#64

Post by Joeboy »

notahacker wrote: post #56
whiddershins wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> To me, history demonstrates that it's simply idealism to believe that people can, in aggregate, come together on complex, polarizing issues. Just look at how much the majority opinion on dozens of topics has changed over the past few decades. Marijuana legalization. Gay marriage. Mass incarceration. Lots and lots of change happens in the hearts and minds of lots and lots of people without force being involved. Peo…

Since you raise it as an example: in the UK opposition to gay marriage (and a few years earlier, more basic gay issues) didn't melt away through empathetic discussion or addressing their concerns but simply from the government going ahead and doing it (I doubt they'd have gone to war for it if it were necessary, but that underlines the point about might being more significant than right in the debate). Public opinion…

I think this is right. Societal change makes it feel safer to hold the new opinion than the old one. A lot of people who have "changed their minds" about gay people are actually just making a pragmatic adaptation to the realities of modern life (consciously or subconsciously).

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#65

Post by gbacon »

whiddershins wrote: post #33
zzalpha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If listening and understanding other people isn't the first step to working through these problems, nothing is. So I'll make a counter-point: let's say we're back in the old slavery days. I'm sure Abe did his fair share of listening and talking with folks from the South. But eventually, there just ain't no compromising and something had to be done. And so it was done. Ultimately, I think, for some issues, there is si…

>> To me, history demonstrates that it's simply idealism to believe that people can, in aggregate, come together on complex, polarizing issues. Just look at how much the majority opinion on dozens of topics has changed over the past few decades. Marijuana legalization. Gay marriage. Mass incarceration. Lots and lots of change happens in the hearts and minds of lots and lots of people without force being involved. Peo…

Nearly everywhere else in the world, slavery ended peacefully. A deeper understanding would have stopped the sad loss of more than 600 thousand lives, nearly half the death toll of all U.S. conflicts.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#66

Post by emcrazyone »

woodandsteel wrote: post #4

This is excellent. I think if there is one thing that might actually happen that could make the world a better place, it would be if people listened to each other more. A couple of hints. One is that I think the easiest way to start doing this is to practice active listening, which is just saying back to the other person the main ideas and feelings they are expressing. This a simple rule, though it can be hard to fol…

agreed.. I live by a motto that goes:

First, seek to understand and then seek to be understood.

Active listening definitely works for me!

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#67

Post by woodandsteel »

ploxiln wrote: post #17

So you're saying, basically, we should "put words in their mouth".

I said in the OP: "if you get something wrong they can correct you"

So the idea is the other person says something, and you say back what you think they are saying. If you got it right, they see you understand them and can move on to the next point they want to say. If you got it wrong, they can correct you.

I think this process or something like it is essential for good communication when emotions are high or ideas are complicated.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#68

Post by gumby »

For a tech reference: this is the function of "Hearing Aid" in John Brunner's prescient novel The Shockwave Rider from 1975. A novel that also introduced us to the computer network worm, the Bay Area as a tech mecca, the current social anomie reflected in the current election, etc.

Part of a triplet of loosely related novels along with The Sheep Look Up and Stand on Zanzibar. Many accurate predictions of the last 15 years, 25 years before.

It was a lovely article by the way. I used to work on a crisis line and I was surprised how many people simply needed someone to talk to.

Re: How to listen when you disagree

#69

Post by polynomial »

harder.

When you disagree, listen harder, past the point you find yourself in disagreement, to the underlying agreement you share.

This is the place where your mutual understanding will let you engage in real dialogue, and not just taking turns listening.

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