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Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

nytimes.com

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Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#461

Post by SilasX »

stygiansonic wrote: post #449
r0m4n0 wrote: post #416

I applied and soon after worked as an engineer for a large company that not only asked for my previous compensation but part of the application process involved my employer validating that I actually made what I told them. They worked with a third party to match my figures with W2 statements and/or pay stubs. It was really intrusive. Pay should equate to value, not some silly ladder climb

I'm sorry that you had to go through this. I agree that it's intrusive and really shouldn't be tolerated. A while ago, I was in the middle of the job interview process for a company. Having read some rudimentary background on salary negotiation, I was somewhat prepared for how to deflect the "how much are you making?" question. The next interview was a technical interview, so I wasn't too focused on this aspect of th…

>"we ask for this information... not to draw a box around you, or anything like that, but so that we can give you an offer that matches everyone's needs".

Yuck. I'm always amazed at how willing they are to waste your time by playing "gotcha" over things they should have worked out before you ever came in. Very unprofessional to spring all that on you.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#462

Post by aianus »

vacri wrote: post #372
aianus wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're doing it because you love it, then you should consider that joy/satisfaction as part of the comp package. A lot (most?) high-paying jobs are high-paying because people don't love doing them and they involve a lot of sacrifice. That's why they call it 'compensation'.

> A lot (most?) high-paying jobs are high-paying because people don't love doing them That must be why call-center workers are all on six figures? Seriously, the people who least like their jobs are not the high-wagers, but the minimum-wagers.

It's stratified by your skillset of course.

But within the same skillset, the higher paying jobs are usually the crappier jobs (longer hours, more stress, more physical discomfort, less job security, seasonal, etc.)

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#463

Post by gozur88 »

andrepd wrote: post #444
gozur88 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You think people should risk their money without compensation? Where can I find such people? And what makes showing up at the office and typing on a keyboard such a holy use of time that it alone deserves compensation?

I know what you mean. It's the current system that's messed up, that just by holding money you can create money. It generates all kinds of fucked up inequalities.

You can't create money by holding money. You create money by risking money. There's a huge difference between the two.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#464

Post by bumbledraven »

matthewowen wrote: post #439
slg wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be ignoring everything else that goes into making a company besides labor. There isn't perfect competition in the real world. Companies don't all have the same resources, customer base, or opportunities. For example, a person doing the exact same job at Facebook is going to provide more value than a person doing the exact same job at Twitter which is going to provide more value than a person doing the e…

I feel like my earlier comment has been misconstrued as "if your work generates $1MM in profit than it should be rewarded with $0.999MM in salary". That's not what I'm attempting to say at all. Assessing value is definitely more complex than that. Additionally, yeah, it's true, competitors might not be able to realize the same value in the same space. Competitive advantages exist. Spreads between value and salaries w…

The labor theory of value has been refuted. In a market economy, prices (including the price of labor, i.e. salaries) are set by supply and demand.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#465

Post by gozur88 »

vivekpreddy wrote: post #95
bargl wrote: post #44

I hate this question. I frequently dodge or outright deny answering it. I won't lie about it, I just say, no you don't get that information. To dodge this question I say the following: "I'm looking for compensation in the range of xxxx to XXXX. This obviously depends on the benefits packages, for an awesome benefits package you may be closer to xxxx, if your benefits are bad then you'll need to be closer to XXXX." If…

I've been recruiting for a few years now, and I've always hated asking how much someone is making currently. Have always found it better to ask "what are your compensation expectations?" Puts the ball in the candidate's court and I prefer asking this early in conversations as to make sure we're aligned and no one wastes each others time.

I like that much better. You do need some way to determine, early on, if expectations are so divergent there won't be a match.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#466

Post by thinkloop »

andrepd wrote: post #444
gozur88 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? You think people should risk their money without compensation? Where can I find such people? And what makes showing up at the office and typing on a keyboard such a holy use of time that it alone deserves compensation?

I know what you mean. It's the current system that's messed up, that just by holding money you can create money. It generates all kinds of fucked up inequalities.

Holding money generates nothing, you have to at minimum risk it in a savings account or the index, or for real gains, playing roulette on a start-up.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#467

Post by gozur88 »

JamesBarney wrote: post #272
Anasufovic wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First person to talk numbers generally has the weak hand in the negotiation.

Most negotiation experts disagree with this advice. The first person who gives a number anchors the conversation to that number. When you name a number you certainly do set a max on negotiation, but you also get to set the starting number. And many negotiation experts think the latter is more valuable than the former. So they can start off trying to negotiate you down from your max, or up you can spend your time tryi…

Still, coming up with that first number is very tricky. A application of mine once reached the salary negotiation phase, and the company asked me what I was expecting. I didn't want to go so high they were insulted, so I took what I thought was a reasonable number and bumped it by 40%.

They said "okay". No negotiation, no fireworks, nothing. I've always wondered what I could have gotten out of them.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#468

Post by stevenwiles »

markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

What is it like being so rich that starting a tech company is something you just do for fun?

It is my greatest goal and wish in life to have as much money as you and to be able to give myself more money whenever I want it.

Do you have any advice for someone who hopes to have the same kind of success as you?

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#469

Post by matthewowen »

bumbledraven wrote: post #464
matthewowen wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like my earlier comment has been misconstrued as "if your work generates $1MM in profit than it should be rewarded with $0.999MM in salary". That's not what I'm attempting to say at all. Assessing value is definitely more complex than that. Additionally, yeah, it's true, competitors might not be able to realize the same value in the same space. Competitive advantages exist. Spreads between value and salaries w…

The labor theory of value has been refuted. In a market economy, prices (including the price of labor, i.e. salaries) are set by supply and demand.

And what drives demand for labor?

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#470

Post by cmdrfred »

bumbledraven wrote: post #464
matthewowen wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like my earlier comment has been misconstrued as "if your work generates $1MM in profit than it should be rewarded with $0.999MM in salary". That's not what I'm attempting to say at all. Assessing value is definitely more complex than that. Additionally, yeah, it's true, competitors might not be able to realize the same value in the same space. Competitive advantages exist. Spreads between value and salaries w…

The labor theory of value has been refuted. In a market economy, prices (including the price of labor, i.e. salaries) are set by supply and demand.

I agree. Labor is just another input that a company requires in order to create its product. I would expect labor prices to be driven by similar if not the same market forces as goods. Excluding government interventions of course.
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