Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#61

Post by ocdtrekkie » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:20 PM UTC

iamcreasy wrote: post #44

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newell's comments are from 2012. Sweeney's comments have been pretty much directly invalidated by Microsoft's actions. Note that this year Microsoft made a point to address Sweeney's comments by demonstrating Steamworks in a UWP app, and the Windows 10 update releasing today makes it easier to install UWP apps without the Windows Store. They've repetitively reiterated that UWP apps can be sold through third party sto…

> That UWP apps are sandboxed (like Android and iOS apps) and therefore less able to act maliciously. Many people don't want Console/phone like restriction on PC. Sweeney feared that MS will try to force everybody to use UWP, and later MS will change UWP policies. But then it will be late for everybody move away from UWP. How many people you know downloads the apk on their android phone to get the app running? Do you…

There is nothing inherently "open" about the current system. Windows is a closed source platform and Microsoft can write it to block whatever they want to. If they wanted to block Win32 apps, they could. (SmartScreen, by default, DOES, if they're not appropriately signed or commonly downloaded.) The idea that encouraging user level apps to use UWP because it is safer does not inherently mean some draconian lockdown is coming.

If Microsoft is going to lock the platform down, they're going to lock the platform down. There's nothing you can do about it. But Microsoft choosing to use competent security in app design has nothing to do with it.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#62

Post by shmerl » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:21 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #61

iamcreasy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That UWP apps are sandboxed (like Android and iOS apps) and therefore less able to act maliciously. Many people don't want Console/phone like restriction on PC. Sweeney feared that MS will try to force everybody to use UWP, and later MS will change UWP policies. But then it will be late for everybody move away from UWP. How many people you know downloads the apk on their android phone to get the app running? Do you…

There is nothing inherently "open" about the current system. Windows is a closed source platform and Microsoft can write it to block whatever they want to. If they wanted to block Win32 apps, they could. (SmartScreen, by default, DOES, if they're not appropriately signed or commonly downloaded.) The idea that encouraging user level apps to use UWP because it is safer does not inherently mean some draconian lockdown i…

> There's nothing you can do about it.

Indeed. Except switching to open platform.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#63

Post by MichaelGG » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:33 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #48

jandrese wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't this be a 403? Making it a 404 is confusing.

The primary reason to do this is the same as why most logins will just say "incorrect username or password" rather than revealing the username is in fact, correct, and just the password is wrong. You don't want to reveal the identity or location of something that is hidden. If I have an unannounced project at github.com/ocdtrekkie/unannouncedproject, you might discover the name of my unannounced project by fishing fo…

A command line timing attack I just tried seems to be able to distinguish between the two. It seems that, as a logged-in user, the real repo takes around 5% longer to respond than a fake one. But this might not be robust - I just used time + loop in bash. Perhaps someone wants to setup a list of nonpublic+fake repos and see if there's consistent difference.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#64

Post by 2bitencryption » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #39

whatshisface wrote: post #20

It is true that Microsoft has been behaving well lately (GWX aside,) but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Microsoft would benefit if they could do all of these anti-consumer things, but that recent stampede towards Linux proved that the tennantry can be easily spooked and dangerous when on the move. Developers are leaving windows to work on Linux and Mac, to the extent…

>but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Actually, most, if not all of the provisions, of the DOJ settlement have expired. This is why they can ship an AV with their OS and tell OEM's to cut it out with the crapware and offer special installers to remove this stuff. I think they're just too weak to be the MS of the 90s. They just have to play ball to be competitive like ev…

It's not just MS that has changed. Every aspect of every industry that MS competes in has changed.

To argue that the same business practices from the 90s apply today, especially in the technology sector where the entire plane shifts radically every other year... that's just crazy. I don't see why so many people buy into it still.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#65

Post by wlesieutre » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:52 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #58

kyriakos wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the bottomline is that epic wants to make money out of the engine so unless they are willing to lose marketshare to other engines (e.g. Unity) they will eventually have to accept that their engine will be used for UWP apps.

I'm still waiting on seeing some real UWP apps that aren't first-party Microsoft efforts or shovelware. The platform is not exactly new, and I'm just not seeing anybody bothering to adopt it.

Netflix is on board, as is Hulu. But the platform makes more sense than average for them, since they want to be on Xbox.

http://www.windowscentral.com/netflix-looks-be-readying-its-...

I really liked the idea MS had with phones that could scale up to full screen devices if you docked them, but I'm more skeptical of this. Aside from media providers, who else is going to put in the effort to make their UI controller-friendly?

Game engines are just about the only other example I can think of.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#66

Post by dpc_pw » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:58 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #39

whatshisface wrote: post #20

It is true that Microsoft has been behaving well lately (GWX aside,) but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Microsoft would benefit if they could do all of these anti-consumer things, but that recent stampede towards Linux proved that the tennantry can be easily spooked and dangerous when on the move. Developers are leaving windows to work on Linux and Mac, to the extent…

>but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Actually, most, if not all of the provisions, of the DOJ settlement have expired. This is why they can ship an AV with their OS and tell OEM's to cut it out with the crapware and offer special installers to remove this stuff. I think they're just too weak to be the MS of the 90s. They just have to play ball to be competitive like ev…

> Yet somehow the hysterical anti-MS attitudes are still here.

Reputation is everything.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#67

Post by Ralfp » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 8:58 PM UTC

kyriakos wrote: post #56

bitmapbrother wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also code that modifies the engine in a way that Epic's founder disagrees with.

the beauty of open source though will let people develop UWP games using epic's engine against its founder's wish.

Unreal Engine is still propertiary software. If Epic wishes so, they may enforce their wish on any of its users on grounds of EULA.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#68

Post by duaneb » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #39

whatshisface wrote: post #20

It is true that Microsoft has been behaving well lately (GWX aside,) but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Microsoft would benefit if they could do all of these anti-consumer things, but that recent stampede towards Linux proved that the tennantry can be easily spooked and dangerous when on the move. Developers are leaving windows to work on Linux and Mac, to the extent…

>but it is also the case that their getting-away-with-it power is at an all time low. Actually, most, if not all of the provisions, of the DOJ settlement have expired. This is why they can ship an AV with their OS and tell OEM's to cut it out with the crapware and offer special installers to remove this stuff. I think they're just too weak to be the MS of the 90s. They just have to play ball to be competitive like ev…

> Its 90% conspiracy theories and axe grinding from things a decade out.

There are 2/64 comments expressing this view. You're being hyperbolic. The main theme recently has been "Wow, I never thought I would like MS again, but they're impressing me!"

If anything, MS is the new darling brand of the big five here.

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#69

Post by Ezhik » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 9:09 PM UTC

Sylos wrote: post #43

ungzd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be EEE if they, for example, ported DirectX to Linux. But here they're just ported other product to run on their "a-la Android for desktop" system. Possibly evil but not exactly EEE.

They can definitely also EEE with this. Take a game engine, create a fork for your platform, wait until your platform and fork has a significant market share, and then start introducing features to your fork, which are not directly available on the main-branch. I can't seem to find anything on how UE4 is licensed, but even if Microsoft is forced to release all of their source code, if their fork is different enough f…

I seriously doubt the UE license will allow this.

The source code may be available but it's not "free software".

Re: Microsoft forks Unreal Engine 4 and ports it to Universal Windows Platform

#70

Post by Ezhik » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 9:13 PM UTC

ungzd wrote: post #10

shmerl wrote: post #2

I hope it's not an EEE move[1]? MS aren't new to such things. I.e. make Unreal Engine work with certain things only on UWP platforms, putting everything else at a disadvantage. I don't have much trust in good intentions of MS when gaming and 3D graphics are concerned, given how they are dead bent on lock-in with DX12, while the industry is collaborating on Vulkan. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_an…

It would be EEE if they, for example, ported DirectX to Linux. But here they're just ported other product to run on their "a-la Android for desktop" system. Possibly evil but not exactly EEE.

It's evil to want people to develop for your platform?