In the past I have always declined, no one has ever pressed it. I even have refused to define a minimum salary or salary requirement. Let them tell me what I am worth. Giving any of that information always seemed like a move that put me at a disadvantage.
Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
81–90 of 785 posts
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#82I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…
Assuming perfect information, yes, "supply and demand". Since you are so eager to offhand dismiss people, you can now research that one condition you conveniently left out.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#83I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
If in 10 years, every high school graduate is trained to be what we now think of as a 10x programmer, do you think they would still make six figure salaries?
Of course not! Value-creation may drive demand but it does not (itself) set prices - supply is in there too. There are enough programmers willing to work at current salaries, or they would rise.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else? Because most other workers aren't, even with an agent, going to get paid enough more to make it worthwhile to pay a competent agent to negotiate on their behalf.
I agree, but smaller payscales means both sides are less willing to negotiate - i.e. an employer would be less willing to negotiate a programmer position as fiercely as an NBA team would for a starting slot.
You're right. They would just pass on the candidate and go with someone who isn't represented by an agent.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#85This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?
> Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else? I'd definitely be willing to pay for something like this. Make it commission based (pay as a percentage of additional salary negotiated) and the incentives between the negotiator and client will be perfectly aligned.
And the agents for athletes take in the ballpark of 10% or so of their total compensation.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#86I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
Sorry, but this is straight up proletariat bull. You get hired, you get paid. If it doesn't pan out, you go somewhere else. You have 0 risk and a guaranteed career. And sorry, but 100k for a javascript "engineer" is more than the "fair share" in my opinion, but it's a market, so it is what it is.
You say proletariat like it's a bad thing.
Of all the social goals that we have (curing cancer, hunger, war, etc.), it amazes me that we haven't added 'work' to that list. Maybe like 5% of people that I know enjoy work more than 50% of the time (and it's probably not 'work' at that point).
Work sucks - we should eradicate it and let people spend their short time on Earth doing what they enjoy. Many of our ancestors worked hard so that we could have better. I hope that I can work so that my descendents (and your descendents) won't have to.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#87I never tell people anyway. I slightly evade the question and say, (in a somewhat annoyed tone), "I'm looking for something in the $X range," where $X is higher than what I actually want. So far, that's worked out fine, since that is the information they actually want to know.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#88This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?
Isn't that basically what a recruiter does? Every time I've dealt with a recruiter, they've done the salary haggling for me. EDIT: I should point out that that's what they do in regards to full-time W2 work, not contract.
Be careful. Recruiters (even 3rd party recruiters) work for the company. They don't work for you.
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#89I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…
An illustation of that is found in high-end hotels. Beyond the building, it's the value that the cleaning and groundskeeping staff provide which makes the stay great. And yet their pay is not that much higher than their counterparts working for a budget hotel.
(As a side-note, that's why I always smile and engage with the staff whenever I can: it's a thankless job, despite being one of the most important.)
Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay
#90I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…
I think you're unfairly discounting the essential work done by other people in any business. While we engineer-types are tempted to look down upon sales, marketing, legal, HR, and leadership as do-nothing fluff, those roles can be just as crucial to a business's success as an engineer's. Pay is determined by the supply and demand of labor in the market.
Most professions you are referring to are unionized and defend their interests as a group, if you wait for C-execs to increase salaries of its information workers you might wait a long... long time. They have a board of shareholders to respond to and that is just not in their interest.
I am actually quite surprised at the devotion of some people here for their masters. It does provide a beautiful illustration of La Boetie's speech on "Voluntary servitude".
I mean, c'mon, this isn't the McCarthy era anymore... people should not get thrown off because you pronounce the word unions. Ordoliberalism like applied in Germany where I worked a couple years provides a quite elegant framework to allow a local form of union so the workers' right can be defended while not impending innovation and regular market dynamics.