Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay • Hacker News Board

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#11

Post by markonthewall » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:08 PM UTC

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups.

Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the average worker does in the country but ridiculously to what they would look like if engineers were allowed to capture a greater (that is a >0.01%) percentage of the added value they CREATE.

Most, from the freshly out-of-school to the senior engineer with glowing reviews are getting scammed because they get paid just enough to live a comfortable life but not nearly enough to what they are worth and what they would need to consolidate their place in the upper middle class.

I had one company acquired by a large tech co. Probably going to start another one soon, I won't commit the same mistake twice... engineers need their fair share. They are the one creating things, they are the one on the front line and we should not get satiated by the crumbles we are left with.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#12

Post by siculars » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:09 PM UTC

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate.

I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#13

Post by mackal » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:10 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #8

fdsaaf wrote: post #3

LOL. Massachusetts lawmakers passed this stupid, empty gesture but didn't ban noncompetes. Enjoy your technology non-industry, Massachusetts.

You got downvoted probably mostly for the form of your comment, but you're not wrong IMO. I wish MA would look into banning over-the-top non competes, and revisit the default IP regulation.

They are also wrong since MA still has one of the tech centers in the US...

I do agree that banning non-competes would be good.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#14

Post by dudul » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

inlined wrote: post #10

Candidates "may" offer this information upfront? I feel like I'm watching Office Space "Am I supposed to tell you my salary before even hearing your initial offer?" "Some employees choose to offer salary information, and we encourage that"

"We want you to join us for the mission, not for the money. Be a team player and share your salary with us!"

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#15

Post by lewisl9029 » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

siculars wrote: post #12

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

> Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

I'd definitely be willing to pay for something like this. Make it commission based (pay as a percentage of additional salary negotiated) and the incentives between the negotiator and client will be perfectly aligned.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#16

Post by ori_b » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

siculars wrote: post #12

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

> Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

Largely because the compensation changes are both rare enough and small enough that hiring someone to negotiate on your behalf isn't really worth the money for either side. Paying enough that the negotiator would be able to pocket a decent amount of money would probably not be viable.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#17

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

siculars wrote: post #12

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

> I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

Because most other workers aren't, even with an agent, going to get paid enough more to make it worthwhile to pay a competent agent to negotiate on their behalf.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#18

Post by fdsaaf » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

inlined wrote: post #10

Candidates "may" offer this information upfront? I feel like I'm watching Office Space "Am I supposed to tell you my salary before even hearing your initial offer?" "Some employees choose to offer salary information, and we encourage that"

That's why the measure comes across as empty pandering. (Hint: you can tell it's pandering because all the rationale is gender gap bullshit instead of the job application process being shitty for everyone.) If Massachusetts really wanted to improve the strength of employees with respect to employers, the legislature would do things like ban non-competes, ban non-solicits, clarify IP assignment rules, and ban mandatory binding arbitration clauses.

But what do we get instead? Identity politics pandering.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#19

Post by tombert » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

siculars wrote: post #12

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

Isn't that basically what a recruiter does? Every time I've dealt with a recruiter, they've done the salary haggling for me.

EDIT: I should point out that that's what they do in regards to full-time W2 work, not contract.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#20

Post by bsilvereagle » Tue, Aug 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

marme wrote: post #6

this wont really help much because they will still ask how much do you expect to make and people who have low salaries currently will say a low number that is just slightly higher than their current salary. They need to make it illegal to ask any salary questions prior to the company making an initial offer. I cant even understand why they would not just make it mandatory to reveal the salary range of the position at…

> I cant even understand why they would not just make it mandatory to reveal the salary range of the position at the beginning of the interview process.

Something of this nature would lead to the 'bait and switch' by companies with shady interview practices. Interview a candidate for a position with a $150k posted salary, then make an offer for a different position that is $100k and the company has deemed a better fit for the skill set.