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Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

nytimes.com

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Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#71

Post by usaphp »

blahi wrote: post #42
markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

Sorry, but this is straight up proletariat bull. You get hired, you get paid. If it doesn't pan out, you go somewhere else. You have 0 risk and a guaranteed career. And sorry, but 100k for a javascript "engineer" is more than the "fair share" in my opinion, but it's a market, so it is what it is.

Can you tell me the reason behind you thinking that "100k for a JavaScript engeneer is more than the "fair share"? And why you highlight the word "engeneer"?

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#72

Post by zenlikethat »

slg wrote: post #58
markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…

Have you ever worked on a project where management considered developers as pretty much interchangeable and added folks to the team that did more damage than good? If so, do you want to repeat that experience?

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#73

Post by refurb »

markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

A job's salary might be capped by the value created, but it's supply and demand that determine wages, not value created.

If you're creating $1M in value, but there are only 100 jobs and 1000 people applying for them, you'll never capture the $1M.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#74

Post by cheald »

slg wrote: post #58
markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…

Nail on the head right here. The price of an employee isn't their MPL, it's no greater than their MPL and is set by how little the next guy is willing to take to do the job. Competitive pressures work to drive down labor prices, too!

Nobody is stopping engineers from saying "I'm going to contribute $1.5m to your bottom line this next year, I want you to pay me $1.4m", but they'll be shown the door because there's a guy that's willing to contribute the same $1.5m in exchange for $100k in compensation.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#75

Post by merpnderp »

llamataboot wrote: post #35
markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

I hardly think underpaid engineers are the main problem with our economy. We could start by looking at, oh I dunno, teachers?

Underpaid relative to what? Oklahoma pays teachers crap, yet for every open position there are fully credentialed applicants willing to accept that salary.

I wish everyone could make a million dollars a year, but as of yet the only fair way to set value for labor is a free market.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#76

Post by hiou »

slg wrote: post #58
markonthewall wrote: post #11

I love the US and California, the tech scene is amazing and I was lucky to met such talented and friendly people in about every place I worked... from very large tech cos to "garage" startups. Which is why it pains me to see that so many engineers get stuck with such ridiculous salaries (relative to the value and wealth they provide and create). Problem is that some salaries are seemingly high compared to what the av…

I am a developer, so I am all for higher developer salaries, but your posts shows a common misunderstanding about economics. The value someone creates has nothing to do with their salary. Their salary is dictated by how many people need to hire developers and how many developers exist to fill those jobs or in simple terms, supply and demand. I might create millions of dollars in value with my code, but there might be…

They have you trained well.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#77

Post by blahi »

DicksenZuider wrote: post #70
blahi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is straight up proletariat bull. You get hired, you get paid. If it doesn't pan out, you go somewhere else. You have 0 risk and a guaranteed career. And sorry, but 100k for a javascript "engineer" is more than the "fair share" in my opinion, but it's a market, so it is what it is.

Prices for goods and services are determined by supply and demand, not by what, "in your opinion", is "fair".

Exactly my point.

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#79

Post by humanrebar »

tombert wrote: post #19
siculars wrote: post #12

This. Negotiating a compensation package, in general, is asymmetric information warfare. Having to reveal your salary history you may as well not even negotiate. I know so many women who are constantly bit by this and negotiating in general. Here's an idea: compensation agents who negotiate the compensation package on your behalf. Athletes and actors have them, why not everyone else?

Isn't that basically what a recruiter does? Every time I've dealt with a recruiter, they've done the salary haggling for me. EDIT: I should point out that that's what they do in regards to full-time W2 work, not contract.

> Isn't that basically what a recruiter does? Every time I've dealt with a recruiter, they've done the salary haggling for me.

Recruiters are much more likely to cut bait and leave an extra 5% on the table to:

1. Keep a good relationship with the employer

2. Keep their turnover high, making money on negotiating many "OK" salaries instead of maximizing each individual salary (including yours).

Re: Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About Previous Pay

#80

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

crdoconnor wrote: post #46
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #23

This is desperately needed in the UK, the recruiters (external) here won't even let you proceed if you don't reveal it.

This wasn't my experience. Only a few recruiters asked and when told "no" they didn't ask why or ask again. Generally you don't want to work for the companies that demand it either.

Where are you based? I'm in London and it's gotten so bad for me I only apply direct now so I can ask for a specific number that I would like. I no longer take calls or reply to external recruiters because so far they all tell me they won't proceed unless I tell them my precious salary despite myselr having told them what I want to make in the new role. Even if the company is willing to pay what I want they insist on knowing. I just say thanks but no thanks.
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